Customer Experience From the Inside Out with Natalie Jackson
Updated: Oct 6
In this week’s episode of Sixcess Stories, Kristina and Eric sit down with Natalie K. Jackson to talk about building aligned customer experiences, navigating motherhood in our modern digital world, and why authenticity and presence matter now more than ever.
This episode of Sixcess Stories with Kristina Gent and Eric Ozarowski discuss the following:
They surface their thoughts on kids and tech.
Discuss what CX is and what it isn't.
How employees need to be equipped and enabled.
The "ah ha" moments that come from taking a team through experiential work
View the full transcript as Natalie, Kristina and Eric discuss architecting the modern employee experience:
Hi and welcome to success stories. We are your hosts Christina Gent and Eric Ozarowski
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and this is where we share real conversations with the members of the six degrees community about life leadership and the power of meaningful
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connection. And on today's episode we have Natalie Jackson who is the founder and CEO of Crescent Consultancy.
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Yeah. In this episode, we talk with Natalie about her parents influence on her career path or lack thereof. We talk
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about social media consumption habits and phone habits. We get into what is customer experience and she explains
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what her approach is to integrate that into basically every part of a company and brand. And then we close out with
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her talking about her motivation to start her own advisory board when she went out on her own as a consultant. And
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I just thought that was really smart and really interesting. Haven't really heard many entrepreneurs do that.
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Yeah. Honestly, it was motivating. I think for me I was like, "Wow, that's something that we should do for ourselves and that I think a lot of
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entrepreneurs should do." um especially if they're new to being a business owner, to being an entrepreneur, it can be lonely. And so to just have some
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people to surround myself with who can support that is awesome. And yeah, I did really appreciate the questions that you asked about just what even is like the
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customer experience role and what that looks like because I think a lot of people are still unsure. So this was really great to hear that from Natalie.
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So please enjoy this episode of Success Stories.
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At this point, we've got like 75 people. Oh, that's so many. So great.
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Yeah. I just wish I would have given this job to Do you guys need another intern?
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Well, I we need someone for sales specifically, but no, we have we have obviously I mean it's been awesome that Valentina wants to work while she's
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abroad. Like that was such a surprise for us. We didn't think that she was going to do that. So, it was like the coolest thing. She's the one who edits this. So, shout out. She will hear this.
Chapter 2: Check-In: Being Present
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[laughter]
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Hope Spain's great.
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Yeah. But yeah, it's just part of the learning. But it's going to be a really great event. I'm glad that you get to come.
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Yeah. I'm excited. Yeah. The western metal part of it too, right? Isn't that where it was? It'll be so fun. Very social. Yeah, it's going to be good.
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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be cool. It'll be really fun. How was You said that you were at like a round table thing.
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Yeah, this morning I had a LinkedIn live, my very first one ever. So, it's been a hell of a day.
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That's cool. Well, yeah, let's do a little check-in. Maybe even for me, and this could be relevant to everyone, is
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what's one thing that each of us need to truthfully let go of to be present here.
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Yeah, I think it's the rush going from one thing to the next. I always take a moment to be like, okay, I did that and now on to the next thing. Just take a
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moment. And so I think it's just this hand gesture of moving things past and then being in the moment. Just all the things. Yeah.
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Yeah. I think specifically for me is I've been playing phone tag all day and I'm waiting for a call that I hope does not happen while we're talking.
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[laughter]
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Sounds important. It's semi It's semiimportant.
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So that's lingering in the back of my head. I need to have that happen today. Yeah, definitely.
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Try to let that go for the next hour, whatever.
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Yeah. I mean, obviously just all the game stuff and the event that we have coming up, but I that's what I really appreciate about this space in
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particular is I put that put my computer away and I can be here and it kind of just sucks me in when we're in this room. Yeah.
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Which is really helpful. That's good. Yeah. You're second home.
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When we were walking into the space and I was like, man, we're here quite a bit.
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This is pretty much like I feel like I work here, [laughter] right? I mean, even though this doesn't this never feels like work, which is
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great, right? No, just from listening to the other podcast, there's a passion that you guys have for this. You say you want to do it every day, right? Always.
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Oh my gosh, if this was That's great. more of my full time. Yeah.
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That would be so cool. I mean, I I love the times that I get to just go and meet with people like when we met the first time for coffee. Those are It's so
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energizing. And so I think just being able to talk to people and I don't know, we've talked about so many different topics on here and it's fun to just be
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in a room of intelligent humans and kind of dive in. Right.
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Yeah. I think I've learned something from everyone that I didn't know just in this setting. So that's been fun.
Chapter 3: The Craving for Authenticity
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Well, you're on the edge of the need for authenticity. I think coming out of the round table I was just at that came up a few times about with AI and some changes
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and everything. This is what people are craving. So I think it's so nice that you're taking the moment to do this. Truly.
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Yeah. No, thanks for coming on. Thanks for being a part of. So tell us about the round table. Like tell us what was that.
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It's just it's connections. Like I got invited through I learned that someone who coached and taught someone I worked
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with at my prior firm who's been established for a very long time. And this is a place where I get the sense that business owners and experts they
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publish their books through this particular editor. Okay. who also has a speaker and coach and all, you know, it's a combination of expertise and they
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lift each other up and they practice and so I learned a bunch of things just from, you know, where I was earlier hearing them practice and present what
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they've written about based on decades of their careers. So, it was cool. I was at UCSD at the continuing ed building,
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which is the new one that I hadn't seen kind of near Whole Foods over there.
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So, is the editor kind of the glue to Sounds like the glue. A lot of them knew each other. I was sort of the guest in there.
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Are you considering writing a book?
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I mean, it's something I've thought about. Yeah.
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Yeah. But it's funny because that's not I didn't seek it out, but I have thought about that as I'm developing my perspective. So I did have a little bit
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of hm like hearing how they'll translate execution ways and translate what's in the news about what Meta is doing and
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how that's going to affect us and just everyone has their position and yeah I guess I've realized I do have my perspective and that's why I was comfortable going on my own. So yeah, it's on the the long list. That's cool.
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The [laughter] long list, right? It does keep getting longer, right?
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Do you have you written anything even like in short form in any capacity?
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I mean, I've started to do a few articles and things and I have a couple ideas of books I want to write, but they're more on like the chick light
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dating side of things with all my experiences, which we're not getting into, right? [laughter] We don't have to if you don't want to.
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But I have, you know, ideas for that of like a chapter per experience and how it rounds itself out. But no, I mean I I've
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put an outline together. Okay. And then I Yeah, I did a webinar, a 90-minute interactive webinar for the first time
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last week. It's been like a really crazy two weeks. And that forced me to have my framework, my perspective, and how to teach it to an executive audience. So, I
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think that was what I needed to sort of jump start. Oh, yeah. Like I could spend so much time talking about these eight things. Yeah.
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To help someone get to their maturity in their organization. That's really cool.
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Yeah. Yeah, that's exciting. I just That's how it starts, right? It's just like, oh, there's here's some framework.
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This turns into an outline and then like, oh, I can go deeper on this and pull this thread and this turns into a book, right? Exactly. [laughter] I'm like, oh, that's how did that even happen?
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Exactly. I heard myself saying like, I could talk about this for four hours and I we can't get into this right now, but here's a tip and here's a story. And
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that definitely was a validating and kind of intense feeling to be like, oh, wow. Yeah. I think there's so much value in and part of it even for this podcast
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for us of hearing it back. For me personally, it's the same kind of thing with writing where it's just like it's getting it out of my head, crystallizing
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it in a way that I'm trying to communicate it more effectively. Just that process alone is really effective.
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And then sometimes it's like, well, now there's a book that people have forever and it exists and people can actually read it. I think there's a lot of personal just intuitiveness that comes
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out of learning from being able to write and write things down and get them out in a clear way. Yeah. Which is a challenge, right?
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[laughter]
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Yeah. Yeah. It's very true. Yeah. This form is my version of that.
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I'm not a writer. This just never been my strong suit and I'm totally fine with that. But this is where I can do that. Eric actually is a really good writer.
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He hasn't really I don't know or at least I don't know of anything that you've written lately, but there was a lock diary somewhere. You're not allowed to say.
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Well, yeah, there's probably something like that.
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Journals and stuff, but yeah, it's not as consistent as I'd like it to be. Is that on your list?
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Yeah. Same thing as you. The list is very long, [laughter] so of course it's on the list. Yeah.
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Yeah. He's got standup on his list. I'm like, we have a place to do that. I [laughter] want to do stand up.
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I cheer you on. We went to the comedy store recently in here recently. you guys. So, yeah, it's fun to watch. It's practice, right? Someone said today in that round table, it's all a journey.
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Practice, you iterate, you iterate, but you need the test audience to do things, right? Like the safe space kind of, right?
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Yeah. You need the sounding there's a sounding board part and then there's a learning feedback loop that needs to happen. Otherwise, I just do the same thing forever and I get frustrated like why I don't I'm doing it in a vacuum.
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Totally. And it's vulnerable to have someone say, "Oh, actually this or you know in that case to have the audience not respond to something, right? Take
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notes on it." But it's vulnerable to be open to feedback. I've noticed that.
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Do you have examples of how that's shown up in in your career where you've gotten feedback and it was a little tough to hear?
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Well, I think I heard someone say I was at a women's conference a bunch of years ago. there were a thousand women and in
Chapter 4: Practice, Feedback, Repeat
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that conference there was the inner critic lesson right and I realized I don't think I have the inner critic and
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I've practiced for a very very long time to reframe things however they pointed out well but just take a moment and
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remember something that someone said to you that was unkind or disparaging or took away from what you thought you were or whatever and every person just went
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quiet in the room right and so yeah I remember those moments where I don't think they were very constructive moments of feedback. Not feedback in the
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positive because feedback can be a negative, right?
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Yeah. More of a critique or not even a sometimes it's not even a critique, it's a judgment, right? Exactly. It's about me. Like that's not helpful feedback.
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No, insulting [laughter] is not helpful.
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Saying, you know, we'd be better if you or have you thought about this or whatever. But yeah, I remember those moments even choosing to go do this. I
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had a I'll just say supervisor to give a new neutral said you're really good behind the scenes. You should just stay behind the scenes. It's like don't tell
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me that. Right. There's so much that I do. I'm so happy to put myself out there.
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Yeah. And other things that or you look like someone who's going to get their you don't want to break a nail coming out of moving chairs and preparing for a
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town hall for a big organization and someone who didn't know me. So there's stuff like that that you judged based on yeah how you look or what they don't
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know about you or being threatened or whatever that I definitely I remember those things but it wasn't feedback like maybe you should think about being more
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concise like this or maybe you should think about highlighting the objectives.
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It wasn't that kind of stuff that I've just had to sort of learn along the way.
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Yeah. Or I mean just feedback in the sense of I'm really interested in what your choice was. Why did you do that?
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Right. curiosity more being more curious. Not even I need to give it to change it. It's just like help me understand how you thought of that crazy.
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I've been doing it this way. Why are you doing it that way? Help me understand.
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You just tell more people [snorts] that
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[laughter]
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that's really question.
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The world needs more of this. Like don't try to fix it. Just help me understand. Right. Cuz maybe it's better.
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That's right. Right. We're all coming from different perspectives and different backgrounds and we can debate on a lot of topics. But recently I've
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heard quite a few people, even members of my family say true intelligence is being able to see sort of both sides, right? And there's more than two sides
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obviously, but just that idea like argue both sides that's going to get you forward, you know?
Chapter 5: The Family Blueprint That Shapes Us
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Well, there's I mean there's multiple truths, right? Like your experience versus my experience versus Christina's experience versus our experience. We're all in the same room, but literally
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we're in three different chairs. So there's three different perspectives happening just at that level. And then throw in all of your background, your
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experience for however your life mix, right? And we've talked about that a little bit before about like I'm only
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we've only known you for less than a year.
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So I only know this window of Natalie, but you have all of your entire life leading up to that, right?
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Where you're a parent and if you have siblings and all this other stuff that have made you this person in front of us right now, which is kind of crazy, right? Same for you too, right?
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Yeah, it's so true.
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And when I show up the best in a relationship is definitely when I can take that time to I mean, there's just so many things that could drive us crazy about our partners.
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And it's taking the time to say, "Okay, maybe they have a reason for why they did the thing like that, like [laughter]
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load the dishwasher in a certain way or whatever the thing might be that I'm like, what what was this person thinking?" And instead of getting angry or frustrated or whatever the thing is,
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it's just that question, Eric. It's like, all right, just walk me through your process, right? [laughter] Help me understand.
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Help me understand what was going on.
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Cuz there's a million different things that could have been happening and it's, oh, okay, you were in a hurry or this is just how I was taught by my parents.
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There's so many things.
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It's true. I think that's the healthy way.
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Yeah. [laughter] It's just difficult sometimes.
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We are human, right? And all [snorts] of us get frustrated and react and everything, but yeah, that's I think that's such a healthy way to go about it.
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Yeah. What did what did your parents do like for a living?
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Career-wise, my dad's a lawyer. He said he'd work until he was 88. Okay.
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He's now 78. And his office actually burned down. and he started a practice.
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We're back east and that was the catalyst to him deciding to actually, you know, just rebuild the building, sell the building and sell his practice.
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And he said that was the best thing that happened cuz he didn't realize he was ready.
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And so now he's a part of he's the most spritly 78-year-old. He's like 50some, exercises, golfs, everything. But he now
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is a part of a large firm and he got his staff in to the firm in senior positions and everyone's doing great and he loves the culture and everything. So cool.
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Really nice to see that accidental but probably fortuitous reinvention. Yeah.
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For him. So he always thought my sister and I would become my steps sister and stepbrother would become lawyers and take over his firm. But we did not do
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that. That was not the succession. Oh no. She got a law degree. My brother-in-law is a lawyer. I took my LSATs and worked at law firms in DC after college. Okay.
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So we thought that we might, but now she's teaching and I'm doing what I do.
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So yeah.
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Yeah. And my mother is an artist, jack of all trades. My parents met in London when she was a nurse. She was from South Africa when she was a nurse. They were
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both in theater, so they're theater people. She was in commercials. And he got a full ride scholarship if he promised to be the lead in Shakespeare.
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That's how he brought himself to college. Oh, wow.
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Yeah. I'm terrible on stage. Like I don't do that, but a lot of my family members do. Okay.
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Yeah. So, you were starting to go down the path of law and then what shifted? What made that?
Chapter 6: When Plans Change and Purpose Finds You
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Yeah. Well, I my stepmother is the best companion for my dad cuz she learned how to golf. So, the two of them have won all these golf tournaments and there
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that's what they do. So, golf is a part of existence, too. Okay.
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But as far as the law thing, I I mean, I went to college. I had a business degree. So, international business and marketing, a minor in English, but truly
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I wanted to be an architect. That's what I wanted to do. My grandfather in South Africa was an architect. My mother was always like drafting plans and helping people with things.
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So that's what I wanted to do. And my father dissuadeed me from doing that basically just saying like it's tough.
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You're going to be drafting for a long time. And then this was like in CAD, you know, the software was becoming a thing. It's like you're going to be doing that. It's a tough one.
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And I didn't I don't love that that happened, but it pushed me a little bit towards figuring out the business side.
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So I almost worked at Accenture. Well, I got a job at Accenture when I was in college and then they overhired that year. So there were 10,000 of us that just got paid and had to wait and see.
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So that's when I went and took my elsats, worked at law firms, I taught art at a Montasauri school for a while.
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My mom's an artist, so we learned how to do things. And then I was like, so then I moved to California. I didn't want to wait anymore. Okay. So and then I worked
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for KPMG, which rebranded as Bearing Point, and then I got into consulting. Wow.
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So, but it's a lot of like life decisions, but it felt fine. Like I just took it in stride, you know, 20some, whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
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You were you were a very productive no show job. Here's 10 grand. Just hold on.
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And you're like, I'm going to go do a bunch of stuff.
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Like most people, the people in their chill.
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So that makes me like during the pandemic, was that a productive time for you or Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes and no. So, yes.
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So, I was leaving at the time LPL Financial. I had just accepted an offer at the consulting firm I went to
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Accelerate and that was right before that was January 2019. Okay. So, I got released into this world of working with
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clients that were kind of established to everybody pumping the brakes and me needing to instead of doing like relationship management and team
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management and all the things, running a vertical or whatever, I had to then awkwardly reach out to my network in a pandemic to try to drum up sales.
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It was terrible. I didn't like that at all. It was very uncomfortable. And I had no sales experience like that despite having worked in consulting and
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in-house. I did not like that at all. It was really rough [laughter] for me. But I still got to deliver at clients. So I was working in a new job. I had to
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figure out how to facilitate workshops remotely. My kids and I did garden walks around our garden and then I put my kids thankfully they got invited into a
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Montasauri pod that we could walk to. So they were in school locally and then yeah I was just working. I was like a lot of remote work then. So, I was
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productive, but I wasn't one of the people making sourdough breads and learning how to play the guitar. Though, we did order a guitar. I just don't know how to play it. [laughter]
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So, I didn't do that, but I was productive in learning a new thing, I guess. You know, and we, you know, made tie-dye and did all the things to try to keep the kids busy.
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So much so that my son, who's now 12, was like, you know, I love co. It was the best. Those were the best years of
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my life so far. [laughter] Yeah. And I was like, "Do you know what was?" He's like, "Oh, no. I know what was happening." But for me, how old was he? How old was he during that time?
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Well, he's 12 now. So, he was what, kindergarten plus. Sure.
Chapter 7: Life Lessons from the Lockdown
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He had to leave in person kindergarten at our Montasaur School. And then, Best of
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Seriously, like yesterday, best time of my life.
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Those are [laughter] those those are the days.
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Those were the days of my life. Rewise, these kids, you know. Oh, that's so funny.
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But I'll pull on that thread a little bit. And I think he liked the smaller feel, the personal attention, like just a little flexibility, not having to be at school butts and seats all the time.
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Yeah, I think for a lot of people, they would agree like that it was a as tragic and as messed up as things got,
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for a lot of people, there was a lot of positive that came out of it one way or the other. Right. And some people were really productive. Yeah.
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Christina and I, we did a lot of drinking.
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Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. I know. I was going to ask, did you make sourdough bread? I did paint by numbers. Oh, that's good.
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So, that was my little activity that filled my time, right? [laughter] Yeah. I wish I I part of it was like Yeah. I didn't go do a do a skill. I didn't get into great shape.
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I was I did some writing, but it was Well, that's when you wrote that's the piece that he wrote this really incredible piece with George Floyd, like
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that whole incident and and it was I thought it was really powerful. And you did go perform that when I was out of town and I was pushed.
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I have I have read that. I have done open mic stuff like with that, but the comedy part is that would be fun. So,
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but yeah, not like super productive. I mean, he was still he was working remote still.
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Yeah. My job didn't really change. I just worked from home. So, I didn't have the break that everyone Christina literally was.
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I was like I had nothing to do. I wish I would have taken more walks outside or
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[laughter]
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done more healthy activities, but no, it was all I was just pretty much every day doing paint by numbers until he quote unquote clocked out. And then yeah, it
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was I mean at the time I was working in the bar industry and our bar group 13
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bars in Chicago once a week they were it was like a pickup time slot that anyone who was employed from Four Corners could
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go and pick up some food and when we were picking up food they were also just giving us beer and stuff like they were
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like here take this too. So they were just giving I mean so we had a bunch of stuff at home [laughter] and unfortunately all of I mean thank
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you so much Four Corners for feeding employees even though we weren't there.
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It's just it was all carbs. It was pizza and pasta.
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So they were giving us pizza, pasta and beer. [laughter] I'm like thank you. I'm so grateful. And
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[laughter]
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this is not great on me right now. We're sitting at home comfort food.
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Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. And at that time in Chicago, it was like freezing cold.
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Oh jeez. That's right. Yeah. For a little bit. And then it was the most hot, like the most miserable hot summer.
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And we had this tiny little AC window unit that barely cooled down the apartment. And if we cooked anything for
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dinner, it was we would trade off. So if he was cooking, he had it was this tiny little studio apartment, but what he did
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is he hung up a just like a curtain that blocked off the kitchen. It was like this little tiny space. And so when we
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blocked off the kitchen with a curtain, it did help keep the heat in there. So whoever was cooking dinner was in this
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just like hot box of a little room [gasps] while the Yeah. dripping like dripping like the oven's on, the windows [laughter] are wide open, there's fans,
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and it's just hot air and then and then it's like he'll poke his head out or I'll poke my head out once a okay, dinner's ready and then
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it's like cracking open a beer just because I'm sweating so much. It was Yeah, it was such a time and it was the two of us with our two dogs.
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Okay. And in this tiny space, we went from like really not seeing each other hardly at all at home just because of our schedules to now we're around each
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other 24/7 a year into our marriage. It was Yeah, it was an interesting time.
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You're still here today and work together bonding. Made us better from it for sure.
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Definitely brought us close. There was some friction.
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Oh yeah, I It felt It felt like 5 years of marriage in like a six month window. Well, and there was just I mean there was so much happening to BLM movement like there was
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a lot that was coming up that and it was all consuming during that time because there was so much time off for so many people and so it was just it was
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amplified more than than now right there's things that are happening now that are there's all kinds of tragedy and things that are happening and at the
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same time there's so much daytoday that I feel like we are still being occupied with versus then that's all I had to
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consume my time and it was just constant on my feeds and right so it was a very different time and we definitely that's how some people just still
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operate right they get hooked into the story they the news or whatever the social media platform whatever it is it's like that becomes the world
24:14
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that's right that view yeah like that was a window for you Christina of in that moment I was like oh like but that's how some people live
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how do you how do you handle like social media and I mean just everything that's going on in the world or do you watch the news or is any of that a big part of
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your day-to-day life. I mean, I'm I try to be aware for sure, but I also my algorithms are very immature cuz I don't
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do anything. And I mean that not the content is immature, but I don't go there. I don't want that. I try they don't know you that well.
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They don't know me that well. I love that. They don't it's mom stuff, you know, or whatever. I just I prefer not to go there.
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That doesn't mean that I don't try to be educated and have my opinion, but just generally I try to live my life open-minded. I'll listen to those who have the passion and I just kind of live in that space.
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Sure.
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Not an absent bubble, but just a little bit more just let me stay a little zen as I would I would say I'm the same way. I
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don't get I most of my stuff I literally don't know when things happen unless someone tells me like and it's like I find out about the stuff when it comes.
Chapter 8: How Values Shape Everyday Moments
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So I'm probably even more a little bit there people like oh you don't know that Christina will be like you don't know what this like what this thing is and I'm like no but you're the second person that
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told me [laughter] about it. So, let me go and look it up.
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That's right. My family and I, we do play the New York Times games, you know, like Wordle every day and those things.
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How I start my day.
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Yeah. We do those right at night. I'll do that. And so, if there is something that comes up, I'll read there and I still get the Wall Street Journal, you
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know, sometimes read it. So, it's like different news sources, but I just don't live on social. I guess that's Yeah, that's probably healthy. Well, because [laughter] I
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think that's part of the learning for me during the pandemic when it was so all-consuming and it was so hard on just
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mental everything. And it's it's tough because of course I want to know what's going on in our country in the world and
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it's it can be really heavy and daunting. And it's interesting. I think one of the biggest things that I just
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really disagree with as far as there's people who have a platform, they have a really large audience and other people
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will be like shouting at them as like why aren't you saying something kind of mentality and it's like dude that I don't think that's everyone's
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responsibility because not everyone can handle it, right?
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I mean yes, maybe I have this huge following and at the same time it's like I have to take care of myself.
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Yeah. And so that's just yeah I don't know some people can handle more like in certain parts of
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every aspect of our lives and I think it's the people who can who can share that but if I can't then take care of me
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that's right or they appear to it might be really tough you know outside of the public presence right I think there's a
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moment in that who chooses to speak up and do different things there's risk involved with all of it so I think it's where we choose to live in that vocal
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platform and how much right we're influenced by others to put pressures on. Yeah. I don't know.
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Yeah. I mean the social media thing it's just a can of worms. It's it's so interesting and it's it didn't exist 15 years ago.
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How much of our time is on a phone that 15 20 years? What is it? 2008 I think.
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I've seen that bar chart. I did see that one. I think it was on LinkedIn. But yes.
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Yeah. It's like what like what were we what was everyone doing? There was so much time that wasn't here where it's going now. Right. It's kind of It's crazy to think about.
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It is. It's Well, that's why the desire for connection and in person and authenticity that's really really real, right? Is so important.
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Do your kids have anything like a iPad, phone, like anything?
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I wish it was just wood toys and no TV, but that [laughter] was the beginning of their lives now.
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Yeah, they do. My son just got a PC with the flashy lights and everything for his birthday the other day and yeah, my
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daughter has a laptop now. She just discovered Roblox over the summer, but they know how I feel about it. So, I
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have all of the parental, you know, the timers and the checks. I can see every single search. So I think me it's very much about I don't know surveillance I
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guess to understand and to make sure that things get shut down at night and that they come down to dinner if it's something that we'd want to do together
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so they know my feelings about it but that doesn't take away from their joy I guess.
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Um and I did read that book the anxious generation.
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Yeah I was going to ask if you read that.
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Yeah. So I read that and one of my takeaways was especially with they say right with boys as long as it's and I think it's applicable for girls too but
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in that book with boys social gaming when they're with talking with friends or side by side with friends is in
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quotes the healthier option right and then I try for not too much violence and all that and for the girls they talk
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about right social media as a fear and my daughter's nine so she's not on social and won't the kids won't get phones until
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the wait till 8 movement, so not till 8th grade, but they have watches for safety so they can call and do things.
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That's I mean from my I've read half of that book. I'm not done with it yet, but I'm in the middle of it. But yeah, for my takeaway is yeah, like there's no
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reason for anyone under 13, 14 to have access to a slot machine in their pocket. [laughter] It's insane,
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right? And they talk about the different studies in schools to take away phones and now public school and my both my kids are in private schools but there's
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no phones they have to check them in just showing the difference in focus and results.
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Yeah. I would I would imagine that it's night and day in the classroom.
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Right. Right. Well, I see that they go into this hole of technology and their day is different the next day. The way they talk to me is different. So, I
Chapter 9: Teaching Connection in a Digital Age
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would prefer as I said just nature, let's garden and not do that. you I would imagine the challenge with that is
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so other parents aren't going to be operating the same way you do and for me if I remember like 10 11 12 13 is like oh Christina has and at Christina's
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house we get to right does does that come up with your kids at all not a ton I mean my son is he's a jovial
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friendly kid so he'll get someone's email address or find them online and all and he wants it but it's less about peer pressure I didn't really give into peer pressure there's a kid. I don't
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know if I'm instilling something in them, but they sort of have their conviction about things.
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So, no, that's not for us. That's not a thing. I think it will be and I hear from other parents it will be when they get to like 8th grade, 9th grade, but we're not.
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Yeah. Maybe little maybe it's still a little early. I was one of the first of my friends like I had a cell phone first in like seventh or eighth grade
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and I remember brick Nokia light up light up cover screen from the mall [laughter] playing from the mall.
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Yeah. But it was it was one of the first ones that like but I remember like the mindset but yeah maybe it was a little bit older not 9 10
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11 12 maybe I I mean it'll probably come yeah it hasn't yet but also there it takes a little bit of work to get them to do
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playdates different from when I was a kid you know everyone in the neighborhood played and we're up in the apple tree and we're doing this in the creek all that stuff that's it takes
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coordination and texting and so we're trying to create our circles around our neighborhood which we've done and everyone's busy and they go for sports
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and they do this and they do that. So, it takes coordination for sure, but I'm willing to put the effort in to give them a little bit of that easy socialization.
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I think that's important. It's so much easier to Oh, you're upset. Here's a screen. Stop. Oh my gosh. No.
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Or what is it? What's the throw cheese on their face? Oh gosh. For the babies. For the babies.
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You didn't do that. No screens at the table. No screens at restaurants. No matter the age. None of that. But I do allow it on airplanes. They love that.
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I'll stuff their backpacks with snacks, books, and devices. And then I can now read a book or watch a movie, you know, they're older.
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I I listen to Armchair Expert, and they've been talking about how they went back to getting a landline.
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Oh, yeah. Um, which is connected to the internet.
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And what they really loved about it is they program the numbers that can be
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dialed in and out. So it only can have those numbers on it. There's no So they wouldn't get spam calls and anything like that or even That's interesting.
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Yeah. So it's very specific and it was for safety, right? It was so that the kids are able to have access to a phone
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and here's the list of people that they can call and it eliminates the texting thing or even just the phones like having the phone and you know so I was
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like that's how cool to to kind of be going back in time to something kind of makes me want a landline,
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right? It's like this is the only way that I can be reached is through a landline. How cool.
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Do you remember calling your friend's house? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Hi, Mrs. Johnson.
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Like, can I can I play with, you know, or whatever? [laughter] The [clears throat] worst was like, well, okay, I don't think I've revealed
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this on this podcast yet. I ended up dating brothers in high school, so I was going to say there's three
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brothers. I only dated two of them
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[laughter]
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of these three brothers, but them and their father all sounded exactly the same when they answered the phone. And I remember it was like 227 was the I don't
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know the number for that area. But I just yeah I can remember calling but every time calling that household and they would say hello I would say like one of the names and they're like nope
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it's this one or whatever and it's it was always so awkward and especially cuz I was dating and then like if it was the dad it was a whole thing but I
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absolutely remember calling that landline and they did not get their kids or allow their kids to have cell phones
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till they were 18. So it was landline only and it was awful. [laughter] Great. Maybe it's training for the time being.
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I think it is. I think like your kids will never have to do that, [laughter] right? And there's an art to going up to someone's door and asking,
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"Hey, can so and so come out and play?" Yeah. Did you send me that? I saw this clip of like this dad like teaching his son like, "Here's the etiquette.
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Did No, it was a ding-dong ditch." No, no, no. Those two two different things.
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Oh, okay. I just sent you the dingdong ditch video. And it was so funny because it was the dad who was encouraging the kid to do it cuz he was like, "This is
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what we used to do like back in my day for fun." And it's the funniest thing ever cuz the kid basically gets caught and just stands there and he was like,
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"I don't know. My dad wanted [laughter] me to do this." And then the dad is like in the background running and he's like, "What are you doing? Run." Like
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[laughter]
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so you could tell I'm not on social but love it. Right. [laughter] Yeah. Like that's that's the stuff that's in my feed. Yeah.
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Yeah. That's the kind of stuff that pulls up.
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But this, but what I was referring to is it was basically this dad is like, "All right, close the door. How would you just give me the We're going to role play this." Yeah. Yeah.
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And he like the kid like knocks and he's like looking at his feet and he just slams the door. He goes, "Look at the person in the eyes." [laughter] Like really basic stuff.
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Stop stuttering. Be confident. What do you want? [laughter] He does it like four times to the kid. Oh my gosh.
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But it's very like common sense kind of things. Like I think we forget and this is kind of like just the interesting of like human connection part. I remember
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the moment where like my grandpa was like here's how a handshake works, right? And it's a very simple thing but if he never told me that make eye contact, shake firm but not too firm.
35:54
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Don't like Right. Like all those little things. It's a very simple thing that just kind of gets lost. It does. And people still do it. Right.
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Right. But like where did you if he didn't take me aside and be like, "Hey, it's good to have a grandpa or an uncle or parent to do that." Right. That's right.
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But not everyone has that. There's so much art to conversation connection.
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It's true. And how is that going to evolve? Right.
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Yeah. Well, so mixing AI to this and people are lit kids are literally not even thinking Christina said this, right?
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What do I say? Right.
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Right. [laughter] Very funny. Down to the granular level. I remember being taught to shake hands.
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That was really big with my parent. My mother was very big about mannersh all the knife and fork. So I've taught my kids that how to use a knife and
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fork. I learned apparently I don't remember it but at age four how to do that. So I taught my kids and the napkin and this and all that.
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And then yeah my father was big on like he built his career on the golf course.
36:54
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So it was like that I had to learn about that and then yeah shaking hands. So I had to shake hands, look someone in the eye and so I've taught my kids that but
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same it's like because that's what I was exposed to, right? to be able to do that.
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Some of it gets passed down. I mean, there's so many things where like we learn it from our parents and if our parents don't do it, money is the same thing, right? Like there's all of these things and what's actually important.
37:16
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That's right. I'll tell you the other day. So, I'm doing some client work right now and oddly I've gotten checks.
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They're big companies, but checks as my payment. And so, I sat my daughter was we have this reading knock and I was like, "Dad, do you know how to open mail?" Like I walked [laughter] over and
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she's like, "Well, yeah. I mean, we did this like mail. I remember in kindergarten I was like, "Do have you when was the Aside from a card for a
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birthday like do you know how to open this check without ripping what's inside, right?" And she's like, "Oh, I don't know." She puts down the thing and
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she like, so she's like peeling through it. I'm like, "Well, you could open this side." And people used to have a letter opener, but I realized that, you know, and then she doesn't even know how that
37:55
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gets deposited. So those life skills, sure that will probably go away some more, but even that she didn't know how to open. What have I not taught her?
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Like [laughter] how many little things like that do we all take for granted, but that we picked up somewhere along the way? It's like, oh you you
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I didn't pass that down. Oh my god, I didn't. [laughter] Yeah, then they'll look it up. Whatever, right? Oh, I guess that's true. Just ask
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AI, how do I open this? [laughter] I remember. What do I do with it?
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I remember. So, I never sent a fax. I don't know how the fax machine. I just didn't have a job where I needed it. And
38:32
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this was probably 20 17. I was working in an insurance and they're like, "To do this, we need to send a fax." I'm like,
Chapter 10: Raising Humans in a Screen World
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[laughter]
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"Excuse me.
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It's 2017. I know I've been alive for this technology. I have literally never made like I've made it this far. I don't need to do it. Can you just do it for
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me?" [laughter] So, I can't I don't know how to send a fax. I don't understand how it works. You didn't sit side by side.
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I didn't I wasn't interested in learning.
38:58
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Oh my gosh. I remember having to fax things at different companies.
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I was so I was like, "But I can just email it." [laughter] And then they could print it. That's right. The policy, right?
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They're like, "This is more secure." I'm like, "That can't be true." I mean, yeah, that technology is quite fascinating the way that it takes the
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information and then it prints it on the other side.
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Yeah, that's super interesting. more complex. Is that going to come back? Right. Probably. What were you going to say?
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Yeah, it's crazy. Like it's the magic that happens for me to have this thing get scanned and then it pop out over here was way crazier than like whatever happens between
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That's so funny. Well, it's like did you see the old Willy Wonka? Yeah.
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The when the what is it? Mike TV gets in. Remember that part, right? That's like that, right? Started over here and now he's
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like all these little particles in the air and then it forms over there. Yeah, that's what taught me about technology.
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[laughter]
39:54
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Will got to thank Willie. Willy Wonka, man. Great. I learned a lot there.
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[laughter]
40:00
40 minutes
I want to go back to your so consulting getting into what you're doing now. So, what tell us a little bit about why
40:09
40 minutes, 9 seconds
experiential why now? I'd love to hear the Yeah.
40:13
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the the why behind I mean I think with everything there's that catalyst or that moment, right? and then learning along the way. So for me,
40:23
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I realized I had an aha that what I do is a real thing. Customer experience is like a discipline that I had to learn
40:31
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and learned that and was trying to do it in I was doing it but in you know past organizations mapping
40:39
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stuff out my whiteboard in my office and youtubing stuff and just trying to figure this out because I felt like there was I was on to something when I'm
40:47
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working in one big part of a big organization but I don't know what's happening over there on the front end and I don't know what happens after but I can go ask some
40:55
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people who are leaders but I don't know enough and if I don't know and I'm being really curious and trying to figure it out. What's everyone else doing? Are
41:02
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they also trying to figure it out? And so that I mean I think for me that was understanding that whole customer journey concept at the time and saying
41:11
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how frustrating it was for me to not be able to be in a seat to pull it all together for everybody. Even though I was working on huge transformations
41:19
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around really smart people making change part of a culture transformation like all that was happening all at the same time. But for me, I think I just had a
41:28
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ton of those light bulb moments. There's got to be a different way. Yeah.
41:31
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And then I got to go put it in practice, you know, at a smaller consulting firm strategically and learn a little bit more and try out some of the things that
41:40
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I had read a book about or YouTube really do it for big clients. And so I built up my perspective on that. It shifted a little based on what I did.
41:49
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And I think it was just coming to a time for me when I needed to focus a little bit more. I don't know if I would have
41:56
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or should share this, but I ended up getting pneumonia. I was working and I was like up at two in the morning and building presentations because I care so
42:04
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much about my work and I'm a single mom and I'm with the kids and all that. And so I went to the hospital. Thankfully, the kid's dad came and he was with them
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and you know, and even at the company that I was at, they were so lovely and like they did a food train for me for my you know, getting better after. It was I
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mean the I felt all the you know the warmth and care but it took that moment to get myself there and then sitting in the hospital like well maybe I should
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change some things in my life. So I mean that was one of the really big catalysts to say well I want to focus a little bit more and I care so much about what I do.
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So how do I find something that I care about and so I thought like once I got out of all that and I was recovering it was a lot of conversations to figure out well
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what do I want to do? Do I want to go back in-house at a large organization and move things along now that I know more? Do I want to run a nonprofit? So,
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I took my kids to Hawaii and I read a book about running a nonprofit. And I said, I don't want to do that, but I want to help nonprofits. [laughter] It's like really a lot of rules and requirements.
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That's a that's a helpful book. That book saved you a lot of stress.
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But I was like, I want to do something I really care about and I want to help and I want, you know, so that's why you've heard me say like, let me take what I know how to do and apply it to
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nonprofits and organizations that, you know, are missiondriven and everything, but so moved that one to the side and didn't
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do that and then wanted to get into the renewables space and that I was able to do the LinkedIn equivalent of cold
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calling once I had decided to leave my firm where I was, started to do the reachouts and everything, right? and
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secured that super fun informative project for two years in that space before things changed in the industry of
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course but it's like I was going after these things that I thought that I wanted to do and it took going to a sales boot camp for a few weeks at the
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beginning with a cohort of others who were building something for me to be forced to say well what exactly do you want to do and how do you want to focus
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and you know people use the term niche down or niche down didn't actually do that but kind of So I decided I like
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customer experience. I like the fact that employee experience is so closely tied to it. So I can help with that and help guide and influence the cultural
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side and the human side to make change and growth. And so I landed on customer experience and just pull from what I know. when someone doesn't know customer experience, UX, CX.
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Oh my gosh.
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And I know this has been a journey for you just like how do like how do you what's the simplest version of being able to articulate it at this point?
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Of course, after doing it for a couple years.
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Yes. Quite honestly, when I say customer experience, the thought is, oh, you're in customer support or customer success or you help the service team or you
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design websites or you do this. All that is a part of customer experience but it's brand activation across all touch
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points. That is the definition that I use anyway about what customer experience is. And then behind that is it's people powered. It's a discipline.
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It's measurable. I think of the KPIs.
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You know there's and then it the employees are the ones who need to support and lift that up and it takes constant listening. But brand activation
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across all touch points is I think the most succinct way I could say it. How do you want to show up? What are you offering? What are you promising? And then pressure test every single place
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across the whole journey to see if you're showing up in that way. You mentioned Go ahead.
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I was going to ask what do you see as one of the bigger misses across the board? Like is there something that you're like this is a constant that
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they're missing? Yeah, I think well the first thing foundationally that I'll say and try to help with is the the
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leadership side of things. So executive buyin and an understanding of that definition and what that means and how
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to show up. That's something sometimes it's missing, but when you get down into an organization, it's the lack of
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alignment about where we're headed or what those brand beliefs are or where the goals are or the vision so that the
Chapter 11: Cracking the Code of Alignment
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leaders and teams, employees know how to show up. They need to be equipped, aligned, and then empowered to be able
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to say, "Well, I totally get it. I believe this. We have this common purpose. We want to help XYZ. we want to do this and I feel like I have the tools
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and resources and knowhow and budget or whatever the things are to be able to go do that.
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What I'll say is those who are leading this type of work within an organization need to have experience or expertise,
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access, influence, and budget. Those are the ingredients to be successful. And that's one of the things that I'll pressure test. If it's not there, then
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you don't have the right person leading it. Don't put someone who's so new in their career to lead something like this because it lives across the whole organization.
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Yeah. How do you pressure test what are the some of the things that you're uncovering?
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Yeah. I mean, well, I interview when I if it's the beginning of an engagement, I'll work with the lead and you can kind of tell pretty quickly, right? If the
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roadblocks have to do with this leader doesn't get it or we don't have this information or we can't get to the data or our systems are different. just those
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traditional people process tech things that come up. But aside from that, the pressure testing gets when I start
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interviewing the leaders. So I try to meet one-on-one with any of the I'll just say stakeholders who have any point
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in the journey who get identified and I learn a lot and I keep it confidential but I draw out themes. That's when I can say, well, you know, we we said we're
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going to do this or this system isn't doing that and or this person doesn't understand the role or this one. There's a whole lot. It's it really we unpack a
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lot or I unpack a lot in that way. And then also when I get to interview their customers and clients. So that's just it's learning for me and I'll take the time.
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How many different interviews will you typically do before being part of an engagement?
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Um no, that's what that's once you start. I have meetings and we sort of chat through things and shape what really really matters and what fits with
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our culture first but the interviews that's part of the beginning of an engagement even if they're small. So how many is is it across the board? Is
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it like I need to sit down with every single stakeholder and that could be three people that could be 20?
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Well I identify that with my counterpart and the sponsor. So at one recent large organization there were 18 cross
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functional leads and that's across all the different channels from you know website operations shipping like all the different things. In a current
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engagement there's probably about 20 or so and those include the chiefs of staff
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leads those who run the data side marketing sales all of it. And then so when they work with you, what's the end
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result again to just trying to tie paint this picture for Yeah. better alignment. So an experiential, I'll call it experiential
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north star. So more alignment about why we're here and how to show up for each other and for our client. That's I think one of the biggest ingredients.
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Understanding and more empathy across what our customers feel and what we feel. Better goal alignment with
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metrics. And then an action plan. So here's what to prioritize. you all like they're all the experts, right? I listen
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and pull it together. They already know where there these opportunities. They've talked about them. Some have raised them and sometimes they get traction and
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sometimes they don't. What I can do is be the third party that's unbiased to surface those things, prioritize them in a way where they can start to feel change quickly.
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It's hard when you have an idea and someone doesn't listen and put that in place. So, I'm happy to be able to just be that voice, the ear and the voice, I guess.
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Yeah. to bring that forward.
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What would you say is the most rewarding part of that work? Or is there a specific example of you in the time that you've done this?
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Oh my gosh, it's all so good. It's really nice to get to connect with people and get to know them and help them. Honestly, I'd say, you know, in
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one engagement, there were a couple teams that there's often friction across teams when they don't necessarily
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understand what each other is doing and how important each other are when they're handing off the baton and pressures to do things a certain way and within a certain amount of time.
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What I was able to do, not knowing going in that this is what I was going to focus on, right, is to help build trust,