Using Customer Feedback to Understand and Delight Customers
Host Shep Hyken interviews Natalie K. Jackson, founder of Crescent Consultancy. She talks about leveraging customer and employee feedback to deliver exceptional customer experiences.
This episode of Amazing Business Radio with Shep Hyken answers the following questions and more:
1. What is the "listening gap" in customer experience?
2. How can business leaders effectively close the listening gap in their organizations?
3. Why is consistent reliability more important than delight in customer experience?
4. How does employee and customer listening drive growth and retention?
5. What is the importance of a clear brand promise in delivering a consistent customer experience?
Top Takeaways:
There is often a gap between what leadership thinks customers feel and what customers actually feel. Most organizations believe they’re listening to customer and employee feedback, but oftentimes, their surveys are outdated, information is siloed in departments, and there is a lack of real-time insights.
Listening to customers and employee's means paying attention to data, insights, customer feedback, and employee input. It means “listening” to signals and patterns that help organizations better understand their customers (both internal and external).
Organizations need to stop and think about the kind of experiences they want to provide to their customers and employees. This is the brand promise and needs to be communicated throughout the organization. It needs to be seen through how each member of the team shows up and is felt by the customers that they serve.
Consistency and predictability build trust, giving customers the confidence to keep doing business with you.
Customers value reliability more than sporadic “over the top” moments. Customers need to know that you will deliver on your promise. And if, every once in a while, something falls in your lap that lets you go above and beyond, the combination of reliability and customer delight is where companies shine.
Plus, Shep and Natalie discuss how companies can empower employees to deliver reliable, delightful experiences. Tune in!
Quotes:
"Customer experience is brand activation across everything."
"Reliability is better than delight."
"To close the listening gap, start by asking if you have a brand promise, and if it actually covers how you want your team to show up. Does everyone even know what kind of experience you’re aiming for?"
About:
Natalie K. Jackson is a customer experience strategist and the founder of Crescent Consultancy. She serves on the 2026 U.S. Customer Experience Professional Association (CXPA).
Shep Hyken is a customer service and experience expert, New York Times bestselling author, award-winning keynote speaker, and host of Amazing Business Radio.
Chapters: [00:00]
Introduction: What Is the Customer Listening Gap? [01:18]
Why Companies Think They’re Listening [03:02]
The Difference Between Feedback and Real Insight [05:11]
Why Reliability Matters More Than Delight [07:08]
Building a Strong Brand Promise [09:14]
How Employee Experience Impacts Customers [11:02]
Creating Consistency Across the Organization [12:40]
Closing the Listening Gap in Customer Experience [14:05]
Final Thoughts: Listening Builds Loyalty
View the full transcript as Natalie and Shep discuss CX and EX.
Introduction: What Is the Customer Listening Gap?
0:00
Welcome to Amazing Business Radio
0:02
[music] with best-selling author and
0:04
customer service and business expert
0:06
Chef Hiken. Chef will talk with some of
0:08
the smartest thinkers in business to
0:10
help make you more successful in [music]
0:11
your professional and personal life.
0:13
This is Amazing Business Radio with Chef
0:16
Hiken.
0:19
Hello everybody, it's Chef Hiken here
0:21
back with another episode of Amazing
0:23
Business Radio and we have a great great
0:26
guest today. Her name is Natalie
0:28
Jackson. She is a customer experience
0:30
strategist. She has a company she
0:32
founded just a few years ago. Crescent
0:35
Consultancy. She works with companies on
0:37
how to create those amazing experience
0:39
and amazing business. Radio is trying to
0:41
help you create for your customers,
0:43
clients, patients, guests, whatever you
0:45
call them. That's what we try to help
0:47
you do is create amazing experiences for
0:50
them. And and she's not going to hold
0:51
anything back. She has some really cool
0:53
ideas she's going to share with us.
0:55
Before we get into that, quick
0:56
announcement. If you've got an amazing
0:57
story that you want to share or a
0:59
question that you want to ask, reach out
1:00
to me on any of the social media
1:01
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1:04
And if it is a question, use the hashtag
1:06
askshep. I'll answer the question right
1:08
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1:10
this show or in my newsletter, the
1:11
shepherd letter. You can subscribe to
1:13
that at no charge by going to hiken.com.
1:16
Why Companies Think They’re Listening
1:18
While you're there, make sure you
1:20
download my research. It is free. You
1:22
don't even have to give me your email
1:23
for that. Obviously, you have to give me
1:24
an email if you want to receive my
1:26
newsletter, but to get my research, just
1:28
click on the button. It will download
1:30
and you'll get all kinds of stats,
1:31
facts, and findings all about customer
1:34
service and experience. And with that in
1:36
mind, I would now like to start the
1:38
interview with Natalie Jackson. Natalie,
1:41
welcome to the show.
1:42
Thank you, Seth.
1:44
So, you are like myself. I always say
1:46
I'm a customer experience expert, but
1:49
you are not just an expert, you are a
1:51
strategist. Oo, that's a sexy word. And
1:54
also, you're involved with the customer
1:56
exper experience. I should be able to
1:59
say that since that's what I do for a
2:00
living. Customer exper experience
2:02
professional association. That's uh
2:04
gosh, that's been around for a while. I
2:06
remember the people that founded that.
2:07
Uh Bruce Tempmpkin and uh Jeie Bliss and
2:11
uh there were a few others that were
2:12
there at the very beginning. So, that
2:14
probably ages me. That was long before
2:16
you may have even gotten into this
2:17
business. I don't know.
2:18
Well, either way, it's still going and
2:20
it's global. So, I'm happy to be a part
2:22
of that, too.
2:23
It's huge. It's huge. All right. So,
2:25
let's talk about this intriguing concept
2:28
about the listening gap. I mean, this is
2:31
to me hearing what your customers are
2:33
saying about you. The listening gap that
2:35
no one talks about. Oo. Kind of sexy.
2:38
Yeah.
2:40
Yeah. Well, I mean, being in the
2:42
customer experience world, we're taught
2:44
to have a voice of the customer program.
2:46
We're taught to listen. But are we?
2:48
Yeah. I've asked so many organizations,
2:51
"How are your customers feeling right
2:52
now? Do you know what's happening? How
2:54
are your employees feeling?" It's very,
2:56
very rare that somebody can say, "Yes, I
2:58
know how many customers I have. I know
3:00
how they're feeling and my employees are
The Difference Between Feedback and Real Insight
3:02
feeling like this and we're hearing
3:03
this." It's usually based on some
3:06
surveys that are done a while back and
3:08
some people have the data and others
3:10
don't have the data or there's an
3:11
employee experience survey that was done
3:13
and that's stale and diluted and diluted
3:16
and diluted. So I have found that there
3:18
are a lot of gaps out there. People
3:21
don't know what's happening in their
3:22
organizations so that they can make the
3:24
right changes and that's affecting
3:26
growth. It's affecting retention.
3:28
Yeah. One of the biggest gaps as you
3:30
mentioned this I see all the stats and
3:32
facts about the gap between what the
3:34
highlevel executives and leadership are
3:37
thinking about what their businesses and
3:39
how their customers feel about them and
3:41
then the actual reality of how customers
3:44
are saying this is what it really is.
3:46
And there's this big gap
3:48
and
3:48
I don't know how big really is it. It's
3:50
I think it's pretty huge.
3:52
I think it's pretty huge too and I've
3:54
seen it, you know, having lived in large
3:56
organizations in internal roles and then
3:58
doing consulting across a bunch of
4:00
different industries. That's something
4:02
that I see all the time and I it's a
4:06
little bit about the silos and
4:07
departments that people live in and so
4:09
they they're protecting their space and
4:11
they want to share what's happening and
4:12
they want to make changes but nobody's
4:14
threading it together so that they can
4:16
make changes that really need to happen
4:18
and that extends into prioritization.
4:21
Strategic initiatives up here may or may
4:24
not include the word experience and then
4:26
we have some action over here and then
4:28
we have customer interface here. It's
4:30
It's usually pretty broken, but it's
4:33
fixable, but it's pretty broken.
4:36
And speaking of fixing things, I just
4:38
want to do a shout out to uh Crescent
4:40
Consultancy, which is your company,
4:43
which you formed to help companies do
4:45
exactly what you just mentioned they
4:48
need to do. And
4:49
yes,
4:50
one of the cool things is just yesterday
4:52
I received an email from a client that
4:54
said, "We know somebody in common." And
4:57
they could not say enough good things
4:59
about you. So, I was truly looking
5:00
forward to finally getting to meet you
5:03
in person today as we do the interview.
5:05
That's so nice to hear. Thank you. Thank
5:08
you.
5:08
All right. So, I'm gushing all over you.
5:10
Let's get back to the interview. So,
Why Reliability Matters More Than Delight
5:12
great. So, we understand that this gap
5:14
that nobody's talking about. It's a
5:16
listening gap. We need to really pay
5:18
attention. And is there an effective way
5:21
that leaders could learn what their
5:24
customers are thinking? What do you feel
5:26
other than your typical surveys which I
5:28
mean I don't know how well I've got a a
5:30
theory I want to ask you about in just a
5:32
moment from a prior guest uh they made a
5:34
comment and I would love your opinion on
5:36
it but first how can executives and
5:38
leaders really eliminate that gap.
5:41
Yeah. Yeah. Well, first I'll say when I
5:43
say listening I mean listening to data
5:46
to insights to customers to employees
5:49
listen for signals listen for patterns.
5:51
So there's quite a lot to it just to try
5:53
to take a moment. But for executives, I
5:56
think it's first to say, well, hold on a
5:58
sec. What are we trying to give to our
6:01
customers and employees? What type of
6:03
experience do we even want? And so it's
6:06
do you have a brand promise already? And
6:08
does that brand promise include anything
6:10
about how you show up? And does that
6:12
live across the organization already? So
6:15
just taking a pulse and sort of looking
6:17
within to say do we even describe how we
6:20
want to show up I think is a good place
6:22
to start and then if you say I want to
6:24
show up with white glove experience or I
6:27
want it to be easy I want it to be
6:29
effortless well then you can start to
6:31
listen are we doing those things and
6:33
pulling call data is an easy one right
6:36
we have systems we have tools what's the
6:38
top 10 does anyone know them does only
6:40
one team know them you can start there
6:42
and same like you said with surveys is
6:44
are we being smart with our tools to
6:46
analyze that and pull out the patterns
6:48
and the signals and try to address those
6:50
things. And so that's to say, am I
6:52
listening? And then what are those quick
6:53
wins I can just go fix? If something's
6:55
really clunky, why not fix it? You know,
6:57
that's one part. And then the other part
6:59
of it is the listening for the human
7:02
cues, right? We're in a meeting,
7:03
someone's not speaking up or someone's
7:05
territorial over their department or
Building a Strong Brand Promise
7:08
what I like to do is listen to customers
7:10
via interviews. You and I had a little
7:12
chat about this recently, but one of the
7:14
key things is to have interviews. You
7:17
could have focus groups, but just spend
7:19
some time asking the questions. How are
7:21
we doing? How are we showing up? I've
7:22
done that for my clients. And sometimes
7:24
it's validating, and other times it led
7:27
to more business, and other times it had
7:29
them say to me, just the fact that this
7:32
organization, and in one case it was a
7:33
billion-dollar organization, just the
7:35
fact that I'm having this conversation
7:37
with you tells me how much they value
7:40
us. And that was the CEO of a very large
7:43
corporation in that interview. It builds
7:46
trust to listen and to add the human
7:48
element as well.
7:50
Yeah. I I think that that one of the
7:52
nicest things a company can do is truly
7:55
in a genuine way, not a mass mail email
7:59
type of way, reach out and say, "Hey, I
8:01
just want to hear." I've talked about
8:03
this before and wrote about it in one of
8:04
my books, but one day a lady called
8:06
Microsoft for customer support and she
8:09
called back to compliment asked for a
8:11
manager to compliment the young man Bill
8:14
that took care of her. And it really
8:15
wasn't a young man. It was Bill as in
8:18
Bill Gates who spent time every month on
8:21
the phone listening to what customer
8:23
problems were and hearing the basic
8:25
sentiment of what customers were were
8:27
saying. Back in n in the 90s when I
8:29
wrote my first book, Annheiser Bush was
8:31
one of my clients and they would on a
8:33
monthly basis require the senior leaders
8:36
to go into the field with salespeople
8:39
and truck drivers and spend time talking
8:42
to customers. I mean, how cool is that?
8:44
And that was what 40 years ago almost.
8:47
Yeah. Yeah. But forward thinking, right?
8:49
And very impactful, I'm sure.
8:52
Like the Undercover Boss series, right?
8:54
Kind of the same way. But I mean they
8:56
didn't try to be well maybe the Bill
8:58
Gates thing was a little undercover but
9:00
but the Bush project was not. This is
9:02
what I wanted to ask you about. So
9:04
yesterday I had a great conversation
9:05
with a gentleman named Aaron Cannon a
9:07
CEO of Outset. He's going to be on one
9:10
of our upcoming episodes of Amazing
9:12
Business Radio. And he talked about
How Employee Experience Impacts Customers
9:14
when we get typical feedback we a lot of
9:17
times we're looking at quantitative like
9:19
a score like a customer satisfaction
9:21
score NPS net promoter score. And he
9:23
said, "Really, that's just an average.
9:25
The real the meat, the magic that can
9:28
happen is at the edge of those numbers,
9:31
both good, high and low, good and bad."
9:33
And I just wanted to know if you had a
9:35
thought about, you know, what he refers
9:36
to as the edge.
9:39
I like that quantitative feedback.
9:42
Well, yes. I mean, it's it's the breadth
9:44
of what we have access to by just
9:46
opening up and listening regardless of
9:48
which tool, what method. I mean that is
9:50
where you find some magical ideas and
9:53
other things to fix. I agree with that
9:55
and I really like that and to be able to
9:57
find a way to tap into that now one
10:01
using technology and two getting curious
10:03
once you find something or you stretch
10:06
to the edge whatever the phrase we want
10:07
to say go ask questions go learn more
10:10
about it pressure test it with the teams
10:12
I feel like often times there's a
10:14
department who owns that like maybe
10:16
somebody gets those rich insights what
10:19
are they doing with it
10:20
that's that's the gap that's the
10:22
listening gap or part of Right? What are
10:24
they doing once they have something to
10:26
go work with? Are they bringing crossf
10:28
functional teams in? Are they pressure
10:30
testing? Are they asking another expert?
10:32
They testing things. Are they asking the
10:34
customer to elaborate on it? That's the
10:36
place. It takes time sometimes to do
10:38
that, right? But it's worth it.
10:40
That's where, as you mentioned, the real
10:42
magic happens. And speaking of magic, I
10:45
want to talk about what I refer to as
10:47
moments of magic.
10:48
And that is anything that is a positive
10:51
experience a customer has. Uh I I guess
10:54
I'm going to go to this creating moments
10:56
uh concept that you have of reliable
10:58
plus unexpected service because to me to
11:01
me a moment of magic is anything that's
Creating Consistency Across the Organization
11:03
positive but it can just be exactly what
11:05
you expect all the time. That's why I
11:07
love working with them or it's something
11:08
that is unexpected maybe even over the
11:11
top. So I'd love to hear your take on
11:13
that.
11:14
Yeah. Yeah. Well definitely a nod to the
11:17
book Unreasonable Hospitality. I love
11:19
that one. Yeah. Exactly. Clients have
11:22
asked me for that or I've introduced it
11:23
to clients to do what you said. And some
11:25
of the cliffnotes version I'll pull out
11:27
is you need to get that 95% set. You
11:31
have to understand your budget. You have
11:32
to understand what's going on. Get your
11:33
systems in place. Find that 5% so you
11:36
can go and do the things that are, you
11:38
know, unreasonable or unexpected. And I
11:41
mean I can give and this applicable
11:43
across any organization. Today I had one
11:46
of those happen. I had somebody hit my
11:49
car when I was parked. Great experience
11:51
having it fixed at the place that I
11:52
found. Everything was covered and really
11:56
like the best I would say best
11:57
experience overall. Even just dropping
11:59
off the rental car. No, no, no problem.
12:01
I'll bring it back for you. Here's a
12:02
place for you. You know, the small
12:04
things were done. I was there for 5
12:07
minutes. Everything was handled. I got
12:08
an oil change down the street at a place
12:10
they recommended. Best service ever. The
12:12
music down so I could be on a call.
12:14
Little things like that. I'm going to
12:16
send everybody to these places because
12:17
they did great work. They followed up
12:19
reliably. I got confirmations. I had the
12:21
Wi-Fi password before I even arrived.
12:24
Those are the things. And that to do
12:25
that at scale is incredibly powerful.
12:28
Yeah.
12:28
And to empower your employees to be able
12:31
to think about those things is one of
12:33
the other gaps that I've noticed.
12:36
I think the secret is creating this
12:38
system that's easy for everyone to
Closing the Listening Gap in Customer Experience
12:40
understand. I'm going to go back to
12:41
something you said much earlier in the
12:43
conversation about does everybody know?
12:45
I can't remember what the exact words
12:47
you used were, but it was either a
12:49
vision or something related to customer
12:51
experience, right?
12:52
And I immediately thought of like the
12:54
Ritz Carlton's nine words. We're ladies
12:56
and gentlemen serving ladies and
12:57
gentlemen. That's what we want our
12:59
people to do. That's what we want our
13:00
guests to experience.
13:02
And I'm thinking, wow, one of the
13:04
greatest nineword sentences of all time
13:06
in the customer service experience
13:08
world.
13:09
And I think that's what we do. I
13:11
recently had an automotive experience
13:13
that did
13:14
and I got to tell you it's the third car
13:16
I've bought from them. Why do I keep
13:18
going back? They're not even close to
13:19
me. They're inconvenient. And basically
13:21
the first time I went in, I only went in
13:23
cuz I saw a car in the window that I
13:25
thought, "Oo, that's pretty and I need a
13:27
new car. Maybe that's the car." And when
13:28
the guy says, "Are you going to buy
13:29
today?" I said, "I'm not because you're
13:31
not even close to where I live." And he
13:33
goes, "Oh, really? Where do you live?"
13:35
And I said, "And your competitor is
13:37
walking distance from my office, so I
13:39
can drop my car off and walk to work
13:41
when it needs service." He goes, "Look
13:43
around. Do you see a sitting area?" Not
13:46
really. He goes, "That's because we
13:48
don't have one." Well, we have one. It's
13:49
very small, but nobody ever uses it cuz
13:51
once you buy the car, you won't come
13:53
back here until you want a new car.
13:56
And I, what do you mean? He goes, "Any
13:58
just call us. Tell us that you have oil
14:00
change or you have a problem and we'll
14:02
bring a car to you and pick your car
14:04
up." And I go, "Wow, I wasn't expecting
Final Thoughts: Listening Builds Loyalty
14:06
that."
14:07
And I then said, "What is this going to
14:09
cost?" He goes, "We're going to put
14:11
together the deal. You can go shop it
14:13
around. We should be very competitive, I
14:15
would think." And sure enough, they were
14:17
maybe a tiny bit more, but I'm thinking,
14:18
"I'm not going to give up this level of
14:21
experience." And they proved it again
14:22
and again because I bought two more
14:24
cars. That is again.
14:27
Yeah.
14:27
Do they have that in San Diego? Yeah,
14:29
that's a great And I love that you said
14:30
experience. I I try you know I has
14:33
instead of great service you said great
14:35
experience love that
14:37
well you know there's a history of that
14:39
word customer service or that term
14:41
turning into customer experience it was
14:44
somebody who was really smart said let's
14:46
sexy it up and they did I some you know
14:50
I I don't know why I'm on that that
14:51
theme today but that's [laughter] that's
14:53
exactly what happened they go oo
14:55
customer experience it sounds so much
14:57
more you know so cool and then somebody
14:59
realized you know what It's more than
15:02
just service because I always believed I
15:04
even wrote about it in that first book I
15:05
mentioned customer service is not a
15:07
department. It's a philosophy and there
15:10
is a department that handles complaints,
15:12
calls, issues, questions, whatever
15:14
support but that's a department.
15:17
Philosophically we want to create
15:19
throughout the whole organization an
15:21
experience that transforms into a
15:23
customer experience. Anyway, I digress.
15:25
Somebody even smarter said it's
15:27
everything like not just the service
15:30
like Amazon. You get the box, you see
15:32
Amazon on the side, you get excited. You
15:34
open up your box for your iPhone. Is
15:36
that cool or what? You know, that's part
15:38
of the whole thing. Now, here's the
15:40
issue most companies have. Can they keep
15:43
that level of amazement to use my
15:46
favorite word? If you're opening the box
15:48
and you're amazed, is everything that
15:49
happens after that amazing, too? You
15:51
know, it's got to be congruent.
15:54
It's true. I that is what's so fun about
15:57
this work. Exactly. Like you know I'll
15:59
say customer experience is brand
16:01
activation across everything.
16:03
That's good. That's good.
16:05
And that's why saying like do you have a
16:06
brand promise? It's like well what's in
16:08
there? What is there? How do we do that?
16:10
What you just said across everything and
16:12
I'll leverage journey mapping to do that
16:14
and not product journey mapping but
16:15
everything journey mapping. So I Yes.
16:18
And yes. So that brings us to that uh
16:21
this is a perfect segue into kind of the
16:22
consistency of the experience.
16:24
Yeah.
16:25
You have a concept about this
16:27
reliability out or at least you have a
16:29
statement to make about it. A few words
16:32
reliability outperforms delight. What we
16:35
expect and what we want to happen is
16:38
probably more important than making it a
16:39
little bit better than we thought it was
16:41
going to be. Mhm. That theme I I see so
16:45
much and we are definitely I mean I
16:49
don't even want to talk about if the the
16:50
annoyance economy. Have you read
16:52
articles about that recently? Yeah.
16:54
Yeah. So like don't even want to go
16:55
there a lot longer than recently.
16:57
Yeah. Well yes exactly and the cost of
16:59
that and everything. But yeah, I think
17:01
that's it is how do we make a change as
17:04
leaders as organizations to be reliable
17:06
to build trust to set expectations early
17:09
on just to share what's going to happen
17:11
and then actually do those things and
17:13
maybe update along the way. That is
17:14
something that keeps people here when
17:17
there are choices of other
17:19
organizations, other products or other
17:21
things that keeps us there. Us as
17:23
consumers, right? you know what to
17:25
expect and sure the moments where you're
17:28
like we were talking about that are
17:29
unreasonable or that's those are great
17:33
and how you handle a difficult situation
17:35
also really really important but just if
17:37
we know a little bit about what to
17:39
expect it's goes so much further and
17:42
then you're going to retain more right
17:44
yeah consistency and predictability are
17:47
everything you need to build the trust
17:50
that gives customers
17:52
ideally the confidence to want to keep
17:54
doing business with you again. And if
17:55
every once in a while something falls in
17:57
your lap where you can go above and
17:59
beyond to your point about, you know,
18:01
reliable plus unexpected, I think that's
18:04
uh really what makes a difference where
18:06
the companies just really shine. And I
18:08
could think of the companies I love the
18:09
consistency of them is probably what
18:12
gets me to keep coming back.
18:14
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And even taking
18:17
it to depending on who your customer is,
18:20
if you're in let's say like the medical
18:22
device space and your patients are your
18:24
customers, they have a lot going on. We
18:27
all do, but they have a lot going on in
18:28
their lives. If they feel, you know,
18:30
meeting them where they are, feel cared
18:32
for, or maybe get a few extra reminders
18:34
if you know, depending on what's going
18:36
on with them. I've seen that, you know,
18:38
I've seen that work and sort of amplify
18:40
things to make people true true
18:42
advocates.
18:43
Yep. Well, we are down to the last few
18:45
minutes of our conversation today and I
18:47
would love for you to share one last
18:50
piece of advice, suggestion, wisdom,
18:52
whatever on what we can do to outperform
18:55
in the areas of being reliable. And by
18:57
the way, that's what you are
18:59
outperforming when you're deemed
19:00
reliable, dependable, consistent. But
19:03
what can you share with us to enhance
19:04
the customer experience the next goound
19:07
with our customers?
19:08
Yes. Take a moment to listen about
19:11
what's going on. Ask ask
19:14
ask every stakeholder, every type board,
19:17
everybody. What what do you think's
19:18
going on? What are our biggest pain
19:19
points right now? Tackle that and listen
19:22
for the ideas, too.
19:23
Yep. I love it. You brought us all the
19:25
way back to the beginning. Very good.
19:27
Thanks, Natalie. This is why we call
19:29
this Amazing Business Radio. I really
19:31
appreciate you being on the show today.
19:33
Thank you.
19:33
Thanks so much for having me. It's been
19:35
fun.
19:36
All right. It has been great wisdom. We
19:38
could talk for hours. All right,
19:40
everybody. That wraps it up. another
19:41
episode. We'll be back next week with
19:43
another interview. Until that time, this
19:45
is Chef Hiken reminding [music] you to
19:47
always be amazing.