The People Anchor: How Unforgettable Employee Experience Creates Unbeatable Customer Experience
Updated: Oct 6
In this conversation, Clarence Bongalos, Natalie K. Jackson, and Manasi Shukla explore how a world-class Employee Experience (EX) is the single biggest driver of an unbeatable Customer Experience (CX).
The conversation covers the importance of experiential leadership, the role of journey mapping in both CX and EX, the need for alignment between internal and external experiences, and the impact of this mindset shift on business growth. Practical steps for leaders to improve both EX and CX are also discussed, emphasizing the need for listening, measuring, and creating a culture of engagement.
This episode of The Aligned › Engaged › Fulfilled Podcast with Clarence Bongalos discuss the following:
Investing in employee experience drives customer satisfaction.
The lines between CX and EX are increasingly blurred.
Employee onboarding is crucial for engagement and retention.
Talent-company fit is as important as product-market fit.
Effective training programs enhance both CX and EX.
Journey mapping helps identify pain points in experiences.
Leadership alignment is key to successful CX and EX strategies.
AI can enhance customer education but cannot replace human touch.
Understanding employee needs leads to better customer service.
Organizational culture impacts both employee and customer experiences.
View the full transcript as Natalie, Manasi and Clarence discuss architecting the modern employee experiences:
0:01
Good morning everyone and happy Wednesday. Thank you for listening to us wherever you are. Whether you're driving, working, cooking, or just
0:08
taking a moment somewhere quiet. Welcome to another episode of Aligned, Engaged, Fulfilled. On this show, we challenge
0:14
the status quo of workplace culture and we dive into the work it takes to build transformative and humanentric
0:20
workplaces where people and purpose drive profits, not the other way around. I'm your host Clarence Moore and today
0:26
we're deconstructing one of the most critical relationships in modern business, the link between the customer
0:32
experience or CX and the employee experience or ex. We're joined by two exceptional consultants who approach
0:38
this from unique and complimentary angles. Monzi Shukla is the founder of Sephrella Consulting and a specialist in
0:45
strategic customer education. With over 20 years in the highstakes world of healthcare and tech, she architects the
0:51
training and onboarding programs that ensure customers are successful, engaged, and empowered. Natalie Jackson
0:57
is the founder of Crescent Consultancy and an expert in optimizing end-to-end customer and employee journeys. Her work
1:04
is rooted in the powerful belief that a world-class customer experience is a direct result of a worldclass employee
1:10
experience. Our central argument for today's episode is a provocative one. What if your most important customer
1:16
isn't the one buying your product, but the one building, selling, and supporting it? We're going to explore
1:21
why your employee is your primary customer, and how investing in their experience first and foremost is the
1:27
ultimate driver of growth. [Music]
1:37
[Music] Another
1:57
[Music]
2:08
[Music] good Morning Monty and Natalie and welcome to the show. I'm so excited to
2:13
have you both for this discussion. Thank you for having me. So before we dive in, I want to start
2:20
with something that I found on your website, Natalie, that I think perfectly captures the essence of our conversation today. You wrote, and I quote, "We hear
2:27
leaders facing these real world challenges. Who are we really serving? We need a clear picture of our
2:33
customers. We need our teams to provide exceptional service that reflects our brand values. We gather customer data,
2:39
but how do we translate it into effective actions? Our customers expect a seamless experience, but we're
2:45
noticing gaps and inconsistencies. And that's a perfect snapshot of the modern customer dilemma. But the core of what
2:52
we're going to discuss today is a powerful shift that I'm seeing. If you read that list again, every single one of those challenges now applies directly
2:59
to employees. We're in a new era where our teams are behaving more and more like our customers. They're more vocal
3:04
about their experience. They're less tolerant of poor treatment and they're quicker to switch brands or in this case
3:10
jobs when they're unhappy. And their expectations for ethical practice and purpose are higher than ever. So the
3:17
lines between employee experience and the customer experience are blurring into what is simply the total brand
3:23
experience. Companies have historically obsessed over customer service, but those who failed to give equal, if not
Defining Customer Experience (CX) and Employee Experience (EX)
3:30
more, attention to employee service are facing unprecedented challenges with recruitment and retention. So, that was
3:37
a long monologue, but to kick the conversation off, I want to define these two worlds that are now colliding. To
3:43
level set for our listeners, let's start with the foundational terms. Moni, your work is deeply focused on CX. So, in
3:50
your world, what does customer experience truly mean? I deal with a lot of products and services. And so what
3:57
that means is what type of experience is the customer having with the product and
4:04
the company? And that goes all the way from when they sign that deal or when
4:10
they subscribe all the way to when they're raving fans. And part of that
4:16
journey and sort of that training journey is also to your point thinking
4:21
about the employees that are supporting those customers because if the employees are not aligned then the customer will
4:29
not understand how they can maximize use of that product or service. And so what
4:34
I'm doing in my work is helping companies bridge that gap and in uh thinking about
4:41
the customer and their training journey but at the same time using that as an opportunity to align internally on how
4:49
they can then support the customer. Natalie, you are also in the world of CX
4:54
obviously, but um you highlight a little bit more of the ex piece in your approach to to how you solve this
5:02
problem. So in your approach to connecting CX to the internal world of a company, how do you define employee
5:08
experience or EX? Yeah. Well, I I often come in with education on CX. So I'll I'll ask them,
5:15
you know, what do you what's your brand promise and how are you activating and showing up that brand across the entire
5:21
journey? And then I kind of bring everyone along and say, okay, you know, for the employees, does everyone
5:27
understand what that promise is? And then how does that translate into giving us a north star and experience anchors
5:34
I'll call them on how they show up for each other but also for the customer knowing there are different nuances
5:39
there and then we build out behaviors. So I would translate that to answer your question. What's employee experience?
5:45
It's every single touch point across the entire journey from every moment from recruiting all the way through to
5:50
onboarding to being there to showing up and you know hopefully thriving in your role and getting promoted and feeling
5:56
fulfilled and enriched to telling all your friends that they should also work there too. I think that that sets a perfect foundation. So we have CX which you know
6:04
in essence is focused externally and then we have EX which is focused internally. In my work, I argue that the
The Concept of Employees as Primary Customers
6:10
full brand experience isn't just about the alignment of those two, but really
6:15
in the inward to outward execution of them. And you know, based on our conversations last time, you guys share
6:21
a very similar philosophy in that regard. So, this leads me to a core belief that I want to explore today,
6:28
which is that a company's primary customer is actually its employees. And I'd like to get your reactions on that
6:34
statement. And Natalie, let's start with you. What do you think about that notion? I love that notion. And you know I when
6:39
even just in prior conversations I have to almost put a different hat on because it's so pivotal for me in educating that
6:46
the customers are at the center. So it took me a minute to say it that way but then I had the aha of well of course you
6:52
want to represent your brand out there. You want to recruit attract the right talent that feels connected to your
6:57
values. You want to make sure you're actually displaying and showing up that way. So you promise something over here.
7:03
Does it really feel like that? Do you really feel heard and do you feel that you belong and you have a voice and
7:09
whatever those things are that matter to you? And that that is I think that was my aha to say these actually do go
7:15
together and you have your own journey as your employee and you're going to spend a whole lot of time there. So you
7:20
really need to like where you are and believe what you're doing. Yeah, 100%. And I love those aha moments and I I will say I've had more of those
7:27
aha moments after I went into consulting than at any pro at any point in my
7:33
career. So we love those moments. Mony, what does that idea the employee
7:38
is a primary customer mean to you as someone who builds the educational bridge between a company and its users?
7:44
Yeah. No, that's a that's a great point. Um, what I found interesting is in my work, um, my I come from a bed device
7:52
background, so was very focused on externally on focusing on customers on what their training looks like. But more
7:59
recently, some of the projects that I've worked on have actually been for
8:04
employee onboarding and streamlining their process. And with a lot of
8:09
companies going remote first, what I found is how do the sort of the training
8:14
and onboarding comes into the internal um teams is when you have these remote
8:20
first teams, how are you going to onboard them? How are you going to talk to them about uh educate them on the
8:26
product? But also in addition to that, give them the feel of the company because now you're not in the office
8:32
together and so you don't have those one-on-one conversations. And actually recently some of the projects that I've
8:38
worked on have actually been focused on internal team training and building out onboarding for them. So thinking through
8:46
exactly what I would have done for the customer before, but now for the internal teams. Um, and sort of they, as
8:52
you said, Clarence becoming the customer. So, we want to make sure that they're engaged and they're learning about the product and the company
The Impact of Remote Work on Employee Onboarding
8:57
culture and excited to then truly understand where they fit into like the
9:03
whole puzzle of all of the pieces of the company so that they can then show up and support the customer.
9:09
Yeah, I love that you bring up kind of the the the dynamic between the the in-person kind of environment and then
9:15
the the remote. So, tell me a little bit more about that. like what's the differences that you're seeing in how you're implementing this for more of
9:21
that remote environment versus the in person? So inperson it traditionally has always
9:28
been live training. It's been in a room um where you're sitting with some leader
9:34
who's then going through all of this training with you uh and then you will have a mentor who you'll like job shadow
9:41
and you'll follow them and learn more about the company culture. there hasn't been as much focus on oh like here's a
9:48
handbook read it you know giving them time to go through um sort of learning at their own pace but now with this
9:54
remote first culture there's a lot more um emphasis on self-paced learning and
10:01
also kind of giving them information uh upfront in um in a strategic way so that
10:08
they don't feel overwhelmed but yet they still get that information that's important for them to you know, uh,
10:15
which is a mix now of company culture and but also their role about the product. You know, there's a lot of
10:21
different elements to what now needs to be taught to them. And so then the
10:26
challenge becomes how do you give them the information without overwhelming them? What do they need to know first?
10:33
Um, timewise like what are all expectations? How are you going to set up a mentor? Um, so building out that
10:40
training journey becomes even more important than it did before. So I want to pull a thread because you
10:46
you said the word culture quite a bit in that response. Um, and so I want to run with this idea that if an employee is a
10:53
customer, then the product that they're buying is their role and the company culture. And so I want to introduce a parallel
10:59
that I believe is at the heart of this conversation today, which is that in every business we have this obsession
11:05
with achieving product market fit. Companies spend fortunes on R&D, market
11:11
research, and customer acquisition to really ensure that their product perfectly meets the market's needs
11:16
and it really is the external engine of growth. But there's an internal equivalent that really gets only a
11:22
fraction of the attention um which is talent company fit and it's very parallel to product market fit. But
11:29
talent company fit is the degree to which your people are truly aligned with your culture and your mission and it is
11:34
the internal engine. the internal equivalent of that external engine. But the imbalance between the two in focus
11:40
is really staggering, right? Like while companies pour resources resources into perfecting that external engine um and
Talent Company Fit vs. Product Market Fit
11:48
for you know a lot of large enterprises it can be you know 10 to 15% uh marketing budget 10 to 15% of their
11:55
revenues. Um, and then data from sources like Gallup show that the cost of
12:00
replacing a single employee due to poor talent company fit can be anywhere from 1 to three times their annual salary.
12:08
So, we're meticulously optimizing for the customer, but we're ignoring the people who serve those customers.
12:14
So, with that framework in mind, how does this concept of talent company fit show up in your work? Natalie, we we'll
12:21
start with you because from a journey mapping perspective, how do you design an employee experience that really
12:27
actively selects for and nurtures that deep sense of fit right from the very first touch point, right? Yeah, I love that concept and
12:34
I've seen this work and not work and be set up and not set up and people in different levels of maturity and
12:39
understanding depending on the leaders. And for your question about how does it fit into journey mapping, it's more in
12:45
the preparation to get ready for journey mapping. So, you know, for me, I'll take
12:51
the time to interview all the employees who are impacted by whatever we're working on crossf functionally and I get
12:57
to hear a whole lot, right? I'm always confidential, but themes emerge and that
13:02
leads to actually we need to get everybody a little bit more focused on x y and z so that we can show up in in a
13:09
more aligned fashion. And oftentimes one of the opportunities or the themes that arise are nobody's operating as one team
13:16
right now across functionally or there's you know at odds with each other or
13:22
simple as the technology is not working to enable them or there's not a clear understanding I could go on like the
13:28
lists are long but there are themes that emerge from that and usually it then
13:33
leads to well if we're seeing a misalignment or if we're seeing those champions of change and champions for
13:40
getting aligned or whatever those things are. Usually I start asking questions, well how did you bring on the team
13:45
members and what do you do to align and sometimes it surfaces well we actually do an assessment you know beforehand to
13:52
make sure that they're showing up with whatever it is for them if it's empathy or something else and for other times
13:58
well we have we thought of that and we've had a couple coaches come in so the conversation I get to raise my hand
14:04
and say I have some experts over here who can help you let's just put that pin right here and we'll come back to it
14:10
because we need to assess to get everyone on the right trajectory. That's powerful. So MYI on your side
14:15
like your work is about creating world-class customer education and Natalie kind of introduced this. So what
14:20
happens to a perfectly designed customer onboarding program when the employees delivering it lack that deep talent
14:27
company fit that we've just now been discussing? Like how critical is the internal alignment of that team to the
The Importance of Internal Alignment for Customer Success
14:33
external success of the customer from your perspective? Uh well extremely. So what one of the
14:40
things that I found is when you know HR does their job, they hire the individual
14:47
and and now the individual is ready to go. Um there's two things that I found in sort of this process um to is there's
14:56
there's the the tools like Natalie mentioned kind of alluded to that. There's what are the tools that are
15:01
being implemented so that they can then have a positive experience and then what is the training look like? Are you
15:07
setting the expectations upfront? Are you clear on what their job role is? Are
15:12
you um also similar to what you would do a co for a customer if they have questions? Do they know where to go to
15:19
ask for help? And it's really empowering that employee with all of the tools that
15:24
they need to make sure that they're successful at their job. Cuz most of the time companies are great at hiring the
15:31
right talent. I think where companies fail um is in that sort of execution of
15:37
how to make sure that they then understand the expectations from them but then also are integrated well into
15:44
the into the company uh for their role but then also the expectations of the
15:49
team as well and so thinking about the right tools and that actual training
15:54
journey becomes really important. Yeah. Natalie, is there anything you want to add? Yeah. Well, it just made me
16:00
think about, you know, my own experiences on boarding at different companies or even getting embedded at
16:06
client sites and the difference between, you know, going through training to say
16:12
this is how what you know, this is what you need to know versus the complimentary here's someone who's
16:17
assigned to you to help you to answer questions to guide you and you know the
16:22
tools to go with it. I just had a variety of experiences. So it's nice to hear sort of the I don't want to say
16:27
right way but what you found to be successful Monzie. Yeah. And and I think I think
16:33
also tools play a big part. I worked with a company uh to actually revamp
16:38
their uh employee onboarding. So this was a a healthcare company that I worked with and uh they were having um they
16:47
were hiring clinicians. There was a huge drop off because something wasn't working. And so when I
16:53
looked at the onboarding, it really was two things. It was the tools that were being used weren't weren't the ideal
17:00
tools for those clinicians. And so they weren't quite understanding how to leverage the tool that that the
17:06
onboarding was being delivered in. And then the second piece was setting those expectations and kind of understanding
17:12
where they fit into the big puzzle and what they're expected to do in order to support the customer. And so when I
17:20
helped redefine what that training journey looks like, re sort of we looked at a different tool to
Differences in CX Solutions Across Industries
17:26
carry out that onboarding and then we revamped the content and it was like the perfect mix and it just changed
17:32
everything. Uh Monza, your your background is in healthcare and tech. Is that correct? Mhm. Yes. Do you find that there are
17:40
significant differences in how you go about delivering a a CX solution between
17:46
those two industries or do you find that that the process and and the nuances are very much the same?
17:53
Uh I would say it depends on the type of healthcare company. So traditional for
17:59
example SASbased companies everything is online it's all virtual it's very much
18:04
about user acquisition. Um, a lot of the training that's done is sort of expected
18:09
to be self-paced. Um, lots of inapp tools and there's just sort of like all of these things that are generally
18:14
implemented in tech type platforms. Uh, in healthcare, it depends on the type of
18:20
companies. For example, if it's a traditional med device company, that field because of the type of work and
18:27
because it's a physical product, they do need hands like hand sometimes they need hands-on training. So not everything can
18:33
be done online and they definitely need a lot more touch points as well. Now if it's for example a digital health
18:40
product or if it's a SASbased product in healthcare then you could apply the same principles that you do in tech. So it
18:46
really depends on I would say more like hardware versus software is what I've seen. Thank you for sharing that and and
18:52
Natalie I want to pull on something that you kind of introduced. I mean we've we've talked a little bit already about this concept of you know journey mapping
19:00
um and you do that you know from end to end. Can you for the listeners who might not be as familiar about what journey
19:06
mapping is, can you just give us a quick kind of breakdown of what what that means and and what is the the importance
19:12
and the value of journey mapping? Absolutely. Yes. journey mapping or end
19:17
toend journey mapping is taking a look across you know the well as we said the
19:23
entire journey from when a customer or we could translate to an employee but I'll say you know when a customer comes
19:29
in and learns about your brand all the way through to when they we've talked
19:34
about onboarding and once they become a user of your product or service hopefully grow and advocate uh what I do
19:41
is I will bring crossf functional teams through journey mapping with a particular ular persona or client
19:48
overview in mind. If they don't have researchbackedback personas, we still come up with best we can to make it
19:53
approachable and I guide them through each journey stage align to their
19:59
business. So, we align on what those stages are that fit right. If you're a med device company, that's different from a large broker dealer, which is
20:05
different from someone in renewables, etc. That's where all the prep comes in. and I listen to everybody and we tailor
20:10
it and we put our customer hat on and I guide them through thinking through how
20:16
the what the customer's goals are, how they're feeling in that particular stage when they're learning about you, etc.
Understanding Journey Mapping
20:23
And how much I often fold in effort, how tricky is it to find you or to come on
20:28
board or whatever that might be. And then we put our, you know, company hats
20:33
back on. And then we talk about our company goals and what metrics we have in place and how we're doing and where
20:39
their opportunities and ideas and opportunities surface throughout. But I've, you know, switched to being able
20:45
to do this pretty effectively virtually, though I do it in person as well. and to we cover a ton so that everybody can
20:53
hear from each other when they're cross functional handoffs and we can get a little bit closer to getting ownership
21:00
across those key stages. It's one of the frameworks that I use to help. It's another hat that someone might use if
21:07
they're let's say in finance or marketing to say I own this journey stage, but it's critically important
21:12
that there's focus once we come out of it. And then that's the early stage format they can use going forward to
21:19
execute on changes and realign and reorient everybody about what's actually
21:24
happening outside of their day-to-day not in silos not in you know deep focus
21:29
mode but just lift yourself up uh out of that and we always try to think outside of our industries too just to get
21:35
everybody ready and in a creative space. So to clarify because I mean I don't
21:41
come from the world of of CX. So um this this is not necessarily a concept that I'm super familiar with but it sounds
21:48
similar to you know what I try to educate my clients on in terms of you know putting the hat on thinking about
21:53
that employee journey and kind of the the exercises the steps that they should take with their employees to really get
21:59
them to for a lack of a better term buy into the job buy into the organization.
22:04
Um, but the way that you described it, that's in the context of the customer's
22:10
journey. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, and I can I can switch it pretty easily and say, you know, the
22:16
employee journey when we think end to end is giving everyone a chance to lift up out of their day-to-day jobs and
22:22
think through all the stages from them learning about, you know, where they might join to come in as a full-time
22:29
employee or contractor or whatever it might be all the way through to once they get assimilated in the culture and
22:35
are then empowered to act on behalf of that brand, interact with others and then hopefully grow their career there.
22:41
uh so the exercise would be the same as it would for the customer we just look through call those stages something
22:47
slightly different and what I will say no matter what when we talk about end to
22:53
end journey mapping I'll tell you what it's not it's not process mapping it's not workflow and it's meant to be high
23:00
level though you can drill down into anything and still go through a similar exercise and Monty and I collaborate and
23:06
talk about that a bit to say let's drill down into this one area but highest
23:11
level is a great place to start. Mhm. Well, I love that and I think that that's so powerful and I think it's something that is missing like it's so
23:19
lacking in in the workplace today and but it's more and more needed um you
23:27
know as the the modern workplace continues to develop and shift. Um why
Challenges in Implementing Journey Mapping
23:32
do you think and you know Monte you can answer this too. Why do you think that organizations are neglecting to adopt
23:39
something like this um in today's in today's landscape? You want to go?
23:46
I'll let Natalie answer that and then I'll I'll give my thoughts, right? So many conversations about this.
23:52
You know what came to mind first is one lack of awareness that this is
23:57
something that is actually helpful to bring people together. They're not sitting in, you know, my seat when I get
24:03
to see the light bulbs go off and hear somebody say, "Oh my gosh, I've been in this industry for 20 years and I just
24:10
learned that." That's a real quote from last week that I learned something today that I thought that I already knew or I
24:15
made these assumptions. So, I think that not understanding how powerful it really is. And for those who might know what it
24:22
is, there are preconceived notions that this is a thing that goes up on the wall that we did that one time with that one
24:27
consultant. That's not what it is. it's iterative and you revisit it when you get more data when you learn. So I think
24:33
it's misconceptions um as the the main ones and then you know not not having central ownership
24:39
was the other one that came to mind for me. Who owns that experience? You know if it's employee is it is it HR who owns
24:45
that? Is it talent? You know who owns it? It's got to be everybody. Is it all leaders? It should be. So I think
24:51
there's role clarity that for me foundationally is huge for CX and XX. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Monty. Um, so
24:59
what I love about what Natalie does is like it's giving the company the highle framework. And so when I go in and I
25:06
start working with companies, I actually look for, hey, have you done a CX journey? because that's the starting
25:13
point because that like she said is the north star to say hey we've done this highle work because then what I'm doing
25:19
is when I'm building out these training programs whether it's for employees or customers I'm looking for what you know
25:26
what were the pain points that you found what's the the journey that we want them to go on what's the in who's who are the
25:34
stakeholders and I'm I'm also using all of that information to actually like implement the training and for in sort
25:41
of in my role as well very similarly um a lot of people don't know that customer education is a thing that there is
25:49
someone you know they they then they ask me well are you customer success I'm like no customer success is the person
25:55
that is dealing with the customer their job is not to think about the strategy
26:01
be behind the educational content and I think that's sort of where the misses and people a lot of people companies
Ownership of Employee Experience
26:07
don't realize that um educ ation is sort of the backbone that's supporting the
26:15
customer success team that's supporting the marketing team that they're the sales teams because now like with every
26:21
product it's not just about here's a product here's a product it's shiny go use it but you have to educate the user
26:29
you have to educate the employees you know the on here's how to use it you have to give them that blueprint and
26:36
that's where customer education comes in um and a lot of companies are just not aware that that that's what it is.
26:42
It comes back to something that Natalie Natalie said, which is that it's a issue of who has ownership over this
26:48
responsibility. So from your perspective, who should have ownership over the responsibility of implementing
26:54
something like this? Well, yeah. Well, in my role, uh customer education is actually a role.
27:01
So, um going sort of going back to like the SAS versus healthcare, uh customer
27:07
education and SAS is quite established. um because it's uh given you know the
27:13
the environment that we're in in SAS and it's very tech forward it's very um
27:19
onlinebased virtual so there are a lot of roles um in customer education and
27:26
sort of generally companies are aware that this role of customer education exists so there's always like a customer
27:31
education director sometimes they have teams that are out building out these this content and training strategies um
27:37
but in healthcare it's still relative relatively new because the the digital
27:43
world of healthcare is still also new. So there behind yeah it's very much
27:49
behind and sort of learning to adapt to this remote first digital world and how do we showcase our product in that and
27:56
so not a lot of people in healthcare are aware that customer education is actually a function that's separate from
28:02
marketing and sales and customer success and product. it they work with with the
28:08
other teams. Um but it is a a natural like standalone function. Natalie.
28:13
Yeah. When we talk about the ownership over let's call it the employee
28:18
experience. I my first thought was the culture side of it. Who's in charge of
28:24
culture? And I know Monty talked about culture earlier and I was reflecting back where I've seen a cultural roll out
28:33
change go well was when they brought in an expert still had an owner and took 18
28:38
full months and then continued to monitor and check the you know pulse pulse check on certain levers. That was
28:46
a pretty cool thing to be a part of. I didn't lead it but I was a part of it while it was in-house. That's my first
28:52
thought and I'm very curious Clarence given your perspective and your expertise where you think it should live
The Role of Marketing in Employee Experience
28:57
and I have a different answer for CX. Yeah, I mean I don't know the answer. I
29:03
I don't think that I don't think it can be an HR function. Um, and I've I've had conversations with with um, you know,
29:08
friends of mine who are in HR. And I think that in today's world, the HR role
29:14
is just way too complicated in the sense that the the sense of trust from the
29:19
employees and HR is is gone. Like employees are very jaded about the HR
29:24
role. So I don't think it can come from that um, function. And you know we obviously
29:30
have you know people roles and we have like all these different siloed kind of
29:35
departments um and in many ways it can fall under any or it can fall under multiple
29:41
departments and I think that's part of what makes it difficult to your point of knowing you know who has ownership over
29:47
it. Um if you ask me and I think I'm I'm very like uh biased on this because
29:54
marketing is my background but I have a whole theory that um leaders of the organization should be marketing leaders
30:00
just because of their like interdisciplinary nature um and that
30:06
their whole kind of foundation to the practice of marketing is very dependent
30:12
on people and understanding people and understanding you know their their
30:18
motivations and understanding their values and how to how to take those things and leverage them to get people
30:25
to take action. So for me, if I were to give you an answer, I think that it falls within marketing to have ownership
30:31
over this, but again, I could be biased because I'm a marketer by trade, right? I kind of love that though. I
30:38
mean, it makes sense. It's like a whole tool kit that not everybody knows they have almost
30:45
applying it across the organization. Yeah. And and there's so much more behind kind of that aspect of it from me
30:52
cuz like I fully believe that marketing is the entire organization, right? We're so
31:00
inundated with this idea of marketing being a department, but when we really
31:05
talk about marketing, like the difference between big M marketing and little M marketing, like big M marketing is strategic. It's long-term. It's
31:12
really looking at this bigger picture. I think one of the reasons why we've gotten to where we are in terms of how,
31:18
you know, organizations are performing is that we've we've made them too siloed. like we've separated branding
31:25
from marketing from sales from CX and like all these things that really should be under one umbrella where you're
31:32
moving forward and taking you know you're going stepwise at at the same time. I think that's where we need to
31:39
get back to. So really most questions that you ask me is going to come back to like well I think I should be marketing.
31:44
Um, but that's that bi. But yeah, no, I I actually really like that,
31:49
Clarence, because what I've seen also um is like in my work too, I really like
31:56
marketing is the one that's going out and speaking to the customer and doing the research and finding the pain points
32:02
and finding the ideal clients and um looking at the personas. And so they are
32:09
already in all of the conversations doing that work which
32:14
is the work that I look for also when I'm trying to build out um training. And
32:20
so I can see how marketing is pivotal. And I I really like what you said how
32:26
these days marketing you know marketing and branding and everything is so separate but if you just look at
32:31
marketing holistically there's so much more that goes into it. Thank you. And honestly, I I even go as
32:37
far as to argue that HR should fall under marketing for the same reasons like because like think about it again
32:43
like it marketing is so so directly tied to leadership and and like fundamentally
32:50
in the sense that you really have to put in the work to understand people psychographically to understand like how
32:56
to move them. And then when you when we talk about, you know, talent company fit, we we we should approach it in the
33:03
same way that we approach product market fit in the sense that we're putting in the work and the resources to really
33:09
understand how the individual employee fits within the larger context of the organization. And I think that these are
33:16
the kind of like, you know, and this is not me trying to toot my horn in any sense, but I think it's the way that we
33:21
have to like take a step back and kind of change the way that we look at organizational design to to to just
33:29
change things, right? Like, and I have like maybe the craziest idea cuz even in one of my like articles, I argue that
33:36
like the CEO of tomorrow is the CMO. And in the way that historically the CMO has
33:42
been a strategic adviser to the CEO in today's modern like land business landscape, we need to flip that
33:48
narrative. Have the CMO be the one leading and the CEO being the strategic adviser. And I've talked to people about
33:54
this and they're like, "Okay, you're crazy. You're getting out of hand." Yeah.
33:59
Yeah. I I have conversations and I kind of say something similar, although I agree. I say something similar about
34:06
showing up as an experientially minded leader and you know making sure that
34:11
you're leading with experience trying not to say it's the customer only or the
34:16
employee only and then thinking through maybe like Monio was saying too the entry point for some of our work and I
34:23
don't want to speak for you man but like our is often through marketing and then if the ex leader they often are in
34:30
marketing in some way you know that's hopefully elev elevated and influential
34:35
and crossunctional enough to make change across the org, but because that CX lives there, so does ex the employee
34:42
experience also lives there. And that's a whole lot of pressure if you're siloed to put that over there. So, I think
34:47
that's making the case in a different way because my conversations are slightly different, but it's a similar
34:53
place to head. Yeah. And I think you you said it perfectly that it has to be an experientialminded
35:00
leader because that's where the market is going to that's what not even going that's where the market is now. It's
The Importance of Customer Experience
35:06
very much experiential and and that's what people are responding to and so our
35:11
leadership has to adjust and and respond to that. That's right. What is it Monty? N 89% of
35:18
companies are now competing on experience given par in other areas and expectations that they have. Yeah,
35:24
I think it's highlighted in that and in so many of the conversations and the in
35:29
the recent news, the Starbucks example is one of my favorite if I'm having a conversation with someone who isn't as
35:36
deep in the world of CX and EX to say, "Well, have you felt a difference in Starbucks lately? Does it feel
35:42
different? Are the lines shorter with Brian Nichols coming and piggybacking on what was already in place, but just
35:48
shifting things to more of the coffee house feel? He's notoriously an experientially minded CEO, having grown
35:56
Chipotle back after some headwinds, right? Like that's listening to his
36:02
interviews. It's speaking to a lot of the things that we're talking about today and listening to those employees
36:07
who are serving coffee and what changes to make to improve, change, adjust, strategically align things.
36:14
Yeah. Well, you you say a very very important word which is align and you've brought this up even in your journey
36:19
mapping and I think Monty you said this at the very beginning of the episode but everything that we've talked about so far comes down to alignment which is the
36:27
core of the work that I do with my clients where I really try to break it down to get them to to un to diagnose
36:33
and understand where the misalignment might might be. Um, and I've come to learn that the most successful companies
36:39
are those where the brand promise that are that is made to customers is the same as the cultural promise that's made
36:46
to employees. Um, Natalie, I'll start with you. Like, how do you and you've touched on this already, but how do you help leaders
36:51
diagnose and fix that internal external misalignment during times of change or
36:57
disruption? Right? No pressure to fix something as massive and critical as that, right?
37:04
We do tackle it. that we do. And one of my favorite things when I'm coming up with different diagnostic tools and ways
37:11
to say what should you prioritize and these are the foundational elements always always always comes back to
Aligning Internal and External Experiences
37:17
executive leadership leadership buyin leadership alignment and then visiting
37:22
what exists today and what we've said already. So starting there and going
37:27
through and saying do you have this? Do you feel that this? What are we saying? What are we talking about? Where might there be less buy in who might say show
37:35
me you know instead of I believe it and I'm living and breathing this and telling my teams every day. So executive
37:41
buyin is huge. And then for me I like to leverage the Disney Institute princip
37:47
principles. I you know inspired by but just a way to say do we have our common
37:53
purpose? Why are we here? Why are we showing up? Who are we helping? How does that make us feel? And giving the dis
37:59
Disney keys, how they do that, right? The theme park, if you're familiar, a prioritized list of values so somebody
38:05
who's at a theme park with a lost child there knows how to show up with safety first all the way and efficiency as last
38:12
of the five. To me, that's huge to say you're given the time and space. You know how to show up, but it's okay. Just
38:18
handle what you need to handle. And whatever those words are, I usually help them align around I was going to say
38:23
pathy, but that's not the right word. But a succinct, you know, a succinct phrase to say, here's how we show up for
38:30
each other based on the culture we have today, and let's translate that into
38:35
behaviors that we can use in our day-to-day to know how to show up. And that's some of my favorite work. It's so
38:41
impactful and it takes a lot of listening and some word smithing, but I love it because it gives us that jumping
38:47
off point. what N or sorry Natalie just um explained really requires strong
38:52
leadership to break down the silos that we talked about um just a while ago. So from your perspective Monty, what
38:58
happens when leadership fails to see customer education as a critical part of a company's growth strategy? What's the
The Role of Leadership in Customer Education
39:04
role of a leader in championing the idea that investing in the customer's success post sale isn't a cost center but one of
39:12
the most powerful engines for revenue and retention? That's uh that's a great question and really where they see if
39:20
customers or if leadership doesn't invest in customer education there is uh
39:26
just lack of product adoption and what I mean by that is they will see that impact revenue because you'll have you
39:33
won't have sales the sales will slow down you won't have those users coming in or people will sign up and then drop
39:40
off and so at the end of the day it will impact revenue There is um there was a study that was
39:47
done by Forester or Intel commissioned the study through Forester consulting
39:52
and they found that the companies that do invest in customer education there's a 7.6%
39:58
increase in annual revenue. So there is a case for the importance of customer education because what happens when you
40:06
are strategic about customer education there's an intention and like you
40:11
mentioned alignment around all of everybody working together to support
40:17
that customer and when the internal team is working together the support the customer the customer knows where to go
40:24
like what Natalie mentioned they know the process everybody is on the same page so if We're aligned internally.
40:30
Externally the customer will feel the same thing. And so that's why and then what customer education is doing is
40:37
bringing it all together through training to make sure that the teams understand and but then also the
40:42
customer has that education that they need to know where to go if they need something. Yeah. Well, I think that you say
40:49
something or you said some words that I think you know made me refer back to the conversation earlier of ownership um and
40:56
and you know who who should be responsible for it and I I think based on your explanation of the team role and
41:04
everybody's responsibility. I do think that it's a responsibility that should fall on anyone on the team who
41:10
recognizes the problem or who recognizes the need for it. And I know that that, you know, when we talk about accountability and ownership, that's
41:16
kind of the antithesis to how we should be responding. But in
41:26
recognize that the responsibility isn't just on management or leaders to recognize that and to to invite even the
41:34
beginning of that conversation because then we we become victims to the organizational design of this top down
41:40
approach where it can only happen if it comes from the top. But if we want the change to happen, if we want things to
41:47
get better, we have to when we recognize it, speak up. And I think not enough leaders are really saying that and
Ownership and Accountability in Customer Success
41:54
calling that out to employees and saying if you see it, start the conversation. Yeah.
41:59
That could spark the beginning of it, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Like I'll I'll give you an example. Um before I started my
42:06
consulting business, I worked for a uh with a company, a SAS-based um healthcare company and I worked, you
42:12
know, I was developing all of the educational content, the training, but one of the conversations with customer
42:18
success and with product was if you see something, let me know. I can't train
42:24
someone when I don't have visibility into what the issues are. And so
42:30
um the c the people in the customer success team if they saw for example uh
42:36
a variety of support tickets coming in on a specific topic that was a flag. Now
42:42
they could flag it and just leave it. But to what you mentioned Clarence is they realized hey you know we need to do
42:48
something about it. So they would let the product um manager know and and they would let me know and then it was now a
42:55
conversation of okay is this an issue that's with the product or is this a training issue and it allowed us to have
43:01
that conversation and diagnose it and then implement it so that we were then
43:06
able to solve it for the customer but it took that one person in customer success to at least bring it up.
43:12
Yeah. Natalie, any thoughts? Yeah, I feel like it's that's a perfect example that Moni gave of maybe the beginning of
43:20
or in practice like the voice of employee type program just to recognize
43:26
even if it starts as top down we want to hear from you. Well, then how do you set up all the parts and pieces to make sure
43:31
that those they feel like they can raise their hand to reinforce that those kinds of changes will actually be made to show
43:38
that there's attention on it to close that loop back to say look we heard you we did this and now we're going to also
43:45
add these other tools to make it better for you. We put more trust in that process and perhaps you could even
43:51
advance it to you know like psychological safety and certain things and I don't like this that's happening. It's not always with a tool. It could be
43:57
something more intense than that, right? Yeah. There's so much that I want to unpack in
44:03
and in and all of that between what you and Monty have shared. Um, but we only have an hour to really talk. Um, but I
44:10
want to bring in kind of a central tenant of my philosophy that I think anchors everything that we've talked about so far. For anybody who's
People as the Anchor of Experience
44:16
listening who might be struggling to follow the conversation or having difficulty connecting what we've shared
44:22
so far, the central tenant of my philosophy is that people are are the ultimate anchor to achieving the
44:27
outcomes that we all want, which is alignment, engagement, and fulfillment. Hence the name of the podcast. So
44:34
everything from the company strategy to its brand hinges on the people. And
44:39
that's whether you know whether it's the people inside your employees or the people outside your customers. So, I'd
44:46
love for each of you to speak more on how your specific work serves as that
44:51
anchor. So, Natalie, for you, um, and we've touched on this a little bit already earlier, but you design entire
44:56
journeys. How does creating a seamless and purposeful journey for an employee anchor them in their role leading to
45:03
deeper engagement and fulfillment in their role? Yeah, I I have found that the work that
45:09
I do, it brings a sense of clarity. It clears up some things that, you know,
45:16
maybe there were preconceived notions or someone not feeling like they have a voice or what's happening over there on
45:21
the other side of the fence. I don't know. It lets everybody pause. Not for
45:27
very long, but pause and take a moment to come together to help them get, I
45:33
don't know, back on track or on a different trajectory that's clearer. And the values might be different. I love
45:40
the ones that you use. And I think that's right. You have to feel a certain way to be able to feel energized and
45:46
enriched in where you are. Thank you. And Monty, you focus on education and training. How does equipping a person, whether it's a
45:53
customer or an employee, with the right knowledge and skills, anchor their experience leading to that greater
45:59
alignment and confidence. Uh so, similar to Natalie, what what I'm
46:04
doing in in building out a uh a training program is giving them the blueprint.
46:09
And anytime you write something down or you document it, it sparks a
46:15
conversation and then it's a way for everybody to come together to say, "Hey,
46:20
I agree with this. I don't agree with this." And so that brings that alignment. And then also by looking at
46:27
that process or that sort of that training journey it gives them engagement because that employee
46:34
realizes hey this is my part in this and if I don't do this it really everything falls apart you know if just one
46:40
employee doesn't do their part um it it's not working together and so I think
46:47
we all want to belong. So I think part of doing this is understanding what our
46:53
role or the employees role is in the whole process and it gives sort of this
46:58
greater purpose of I'm doing this for a reason. You know I'm not doing this just spinning my wheels. So I think sort of
47:05
getting that purpose is what um in my opinion matters. Can I can I add to that?
47:12
I think that one of the things just to talk about the role clarity piece, teams with high roll clarity report 25% higher
47:20
performance and 30% lower burnout. That's one of them. I thought that was kind of interesting. The other one,
47:26
companies with high employee engagement deliver 147% higher earnings per share.
47:31
I know earlier you touched on the importance of growth. company. If a company's growing, everybody gets to hopefully, you know, be a part of that
47:38
growth and hear great. And those are from Netswuite and Forbes, just source-wise. Love that. I I honestly I think we could
47:45
end the episode on that, but I've got a couple more questions, but it's so well put between the two of you guys. And you
47:50
know, Monty, I love that you bring up purpose because that's another thing that I think is really increasing in
47:56
terms of what employees expect out of their jobs and their companies is an alignment within the purpose, their
48:03
purpose like and their individual purpose and the company's purpose. And that's something that, you know, we similar to you guys, I try to do with my
48:10
clients as well. But we're not quite done yet. I have a a couple more questions and um I try to
48:16
avoid this topic because everybody's talking about it. Um but we have to talk
48:21
about it. Um because we are living in an age of AI in a time where everyone's talking about AI. I want to talk about
AI's Impact on Customer and Employee Experience
48:26
people. Um but I have to ask the question because it is the biggest disruptor on the horizon. Um so we're
48:33
seeing a push for AI to automate and personalize experiences at a massive
48:39
scale. Monty, starting with you in the world of CX and customer education. How do you
48:44
see AI being used to create hyperpersonalized onboarding and support or hurting it
48:50
with AI? What we've seen so far and there was a study that was done um I
48:56
believe it was by skill jar uh which is a really uh it's a large uh LMS company.
49:01
So they recently did a study that found that in customer education most of the
49:07
work with AI is actually for content development. It's not really for content delivery and personalization yet now
49:15
because in this fast changing world there's so much that's happening so many updates products are changing so AI is
49:23
great in in sort of content development so like I
49:28
for example um uh this is not a plug but I use the company 11 labs they do
49:33
automated voiceovers so I just started experimenting with them which I think has been great and so it's in terms of
49:40
like saving time. However, there's still some thought and expertise that needs to
49:46
go into how that experience is being personalized and delivered to whether
49:52
it's the customer or to the employee. And that still is a very human thing because we still have to understand what
49:58
they're struggling with, what do they need to know, and all of that information can't be automated. And that
50:03
that just comes from experience and it's also unique per company. And so really evaluating it case by case still takes
50:10
thought and strategy. Natalie, yeah, I love what Moni said and you know
50:17
leveling we're thinking about I guess CX or EX as a whole. I think what I've
50:22
observed so far is that companies of different sizes or brands of different sizes have adopted AI in different ways
50:30
and depending on how regulated they are or aren't, they have different thresholds for what's possible. when you
50:36
think across the entire journey or what they're comfortable with. So I see it as
50:41
definitely a way to personalize to customize. Chewy is a great example of who does it well. I think they're
50:46
leveraging AI. I don't want to say that they are aren't but just listening to different podcasts, webinars, reading books on the topic as everybody's
50:53
curious. I think that if you can figure out a way to make it feel personal without it feeling AIish in your
51:00
communication out to employees and customers and it's not glaringly obvious that you're leveraging AI, then you're
51:06
going to be more successful because everybody is seeking or seems to be seeking or many I should say seem to be
51:11
seeking authentic and the human connection both when we're about customers or employees. So that's the
51:17
hurdle is your security and how it's feeling to everybody when choosing to. Yeah,
51:22
I love that you brought up Chewy as an example because u my guests from this last week also talked about Chewy and
51:29
they actually talked about it in in in great detail in in their book that we talked about. Um but it was also in the
51:35
context of personalization and kind of where we're at today with AI. So I love that you use the same case study.
51:41
Yeah, pet owner. So I know, right? Wait, what did you say? I said I'm a pet owner. So
51:47
Oh, I thought you said you were part owner. I was like, oh my god, you're part owner of Chewy. That's awesome. Yeah.
51:53
Um, do you do either of you feel like AI might change the employee journey on the ex side at all? Um, for better or worse,
52:01
or do you feel like, you know, similar response to what you said for CX? Different answer for me. I I've noticed
52:07
with some of even my clients, there's some hesitancy to use AI. And I think
52:13
to Mony's point about it being able to speed things up and make certain things faster for us. I think that it in some
52:21
ways will help employees be able to be more efficient with what they do, streamline certain things, automate
52:27
connections, make things faster when systems are talking to each other, analyzing data. I could go on and on. I
52:33
think the use case is so strong for helping employees do their job better and just remove that element of fear and
52:39
just like give it a go. And then you can use, you know, use that the additional
52:44
thought processing you have on other things. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. I look at
52:50
I look at AI as a tool in the toolbox. It's a tool to really help with certain
52:55
t like task based work. Um but there's still this personal engagement and
53:02
highlevel thinking which can't be um you know that can't you can't automate that
53:07
because that comes with years of experience and that can't be replaced and yeah if I want to write an email and
53:14
use AI to write it faster because that saves me time great but the content of
53:19
the email is still has to be authentic from the person writing it. Um, and so
53:25
yeah, well I think the central thing in all of that is experience and experience is way too nuanced for AI to really, you
53:32
know, take it take over the entirety of it. Yes. Right. And I think that's where the human touch is always going to stay
53:38
because we need that nuance perspective to really understand that whole journey. Um, so let I I always try to leave my
53:46
listeners with something tangible. Um, and we're we're getting to the end of the conversation here, so I want to make
53:51
sure we leave them with something that they can take and maybe apply, you know, tomorrow. So, if a leader is listening
Practical Steps for Leaders
53:56
and they want to start treating their employees as their primary customer, what is the very first most practical
54:02
step that they should take? We can start with Monzi and then Nelly. So, first step is
54:08
high level think about what is the experience that we want to give them and is that experience scoped out somewhere?
54:14
So, do we have it developed? Do we have the training their onboarding journey? So I'll start specifically with
54:20
onboarding scoped out um and and if not then let's build it out so that it's you
54:28
know the employee is clear on what the expectations are but also how like I
54:34
mentioned they feel um like they belong as part of that greater company
54:39
experience. Yeah. Very good. I'd say yes. Everything that Monty said and also pressure test, are
54:47
you listening? Do you know what's happening right now? Is do you have a metric and some quotes and
54:53
just what what do you think the top three things are? Go see if you can find that out first and then put the energy
54:59
and emphasis into let's you know spin this up and get a good sense across our
55:05
journey and how onboarding feels and all those additional speeches. But just open the ears, listen first. M that is so
55:12
important. Let's take it to kind of the external aspect of that. If somebody that is listening wants to really kind
55:20
of focus on honing in CX and the customer journey, what's the first kind
55:25
of practical step that they should take? Let's go same or let's go the other op. Let's go Natalie and
55:30
we'll go Natalie first. Yeahing, Clarence. Yeah, you can think.
55:36
I think that the I would say the same. So, it's almost like the quick pressure
55:41
test to say, well, what do you know so far? What what are you hearing? What do you know? What do you from your
55:47
customer's point of view, what are those current, you know, one to five friction
55:52
points that you know, and just see what you're gathering, what you're hearing, and when was the last time you talked to
55:58
some of your key customers with a person who decided not to join or whatever it is first and then figure out what that
56:05
opportunity is that you're trying to solve for. And it could be high level strategic across everything. It could be
56:10
let's just start doing that and let's just address what we need to now to start turning the wheels and get some,
56:16
you know, additional revenue in here. I agree with everything Natalie said.
56:22
The one thing I'll add is look at metrics. What are the metrics? Like what are those NPS scores? What are those
56:28
product adoption rates? What's your turn rate? And if you if companies are even
56:33
capturing that. So that would be a point to like even start you know if they're not capturing it to start capturing it.
56:38
Start small. That's a good starting point. Um you know a good starting point would yeah just be you know onboarding
56:44
rates or um uh things like that. There's so if you don't have the sort of the
56:50
turn rate lifetime value those are sort of big numbers you look at the longevity. Start small but start
56:55
measuring because we can't improve on something until we measure. Um and so really if if something is failing and
57:03
the metrics and the numbers are not where you want them to be then start look digging into what can be improved.
57:10
And in my experience it always generally comes down to process um and or um
57:16
training in in in the world that I live in. And so then we can really like work on improving those.
57:22
Yeah. Well, thank you both so much for being here today. This has been such an an enjoyable and amazing conversation.
The Future of Employee and Customer Experience
57:28
and I hope you've you've enjoyed yourselves as well. Um, if looking ahead, what do you both believe is the
57:34
future of the relationship between employee experience and customer experience? Will the lines between these
57:39
two uh disciplines continue to blur or will they go further into silos? Give me
57:45
some thoughts. I think conversations like this and thank you again for you having us here.
57:52
I think it amplifies it that it's a real thing, right? Even the role of a chief
57:58
experience officer or those focused on employee experience those have grown so much in the last 10 15 years just
58:04
attention on that is is so huge. Yeah, I would agree. I I think the lines
58:11
are blurring. Um and I really like what you've said Clarence is that the employee is also the customer. And so if
58:18
we're investing so much time in thinking about the customer, it'd be great to also invest that time in thinking about
58:26
the employees as well and making sure that they have a great experience cuz they're they are what makes the company
58:32
and so investing in them is investing in the future of the company is investing in revenue as well.
58:39
Yes, thank you. That is exactly what we needed to say at the end of this episode.
58:44
um if somebody wants to get in contact with you because we've just barely you know in my opinion barely started to scratch the surface of you know both of
58:51
your expertise and and the the nuance understanding that you have for both CX and EX. Um so you know anyone who's
58:57
listening who might want to have additional help um on how to approach CX
59:03
um or how to bridge the gap between the two what would be the best way to get in contact with you? We'll start with
59:08
Manzi. And so they could go to my website, saffronella.com, and um book a call with me, a 20-minute
59:15
call with me. We can go over any challenges that you're having, and I can give you a quick game plan, and we can
59:21
talk through it as well, and they can learn more about me. I also have a newsletter um that they can join. So I
59:27
publish a weekly newsletter where I share tips and strategies on implementing customer education.
59:34
Perfect. And Natalie, yeah, thank you. Similarly, on my website, the crescentconultancy.com,
59:40
there's a way to book 20 minutes with me or feel free to reach out via email, uh,
59:45
natalie.json@thecrescentconultancy.com. That's another way to join and get to know me better and I can learn about you
59:51
as well. Thank you everybody for joining us. And for those of you who joined um and are listening to this episode, I want to
59:56
leave you with one final thought and I'm going to bring it back to the beginning of the episode to this amazing quote
1:00:02
from Natalie's website and something that I think you we should all ask ourselves as leaders in organizations
1:00:08
and that's who are we really serving? We need a clear picture of our customers. We need our teams to provide exceptional
1:00:14
service that reflects brand values. And with the data that we have, we need to ask ourselves how we translate those
1:00:21
into effective actions. So our hope is that this conversation has shed some light on how to bridge the world of CX
1:00:28
and EX to really start to tackle the problem of how we're going to move the workplace to be what we need today um to
1:00:37
really better serve our employees and our customers alike. So, I hope that you've gained some valuable insight and
1:00:43
some, you know, important takeaways. Um, and we'd love to hear your feedback. So, make sure to comment. Uh, make sure to
1:00:49
like, subscribe, and Natalie and Monty, thank you again so much for joining us for this conversation and for spending your your morning with us today.
1:00:56
Thank you so much. [Music]